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[Derpy Dev]

So when I first started tapping into caverns, I assumed that the hoards of troglodytes I saw would be a problem. But as I've discovered, they are remarkably calm. They actually run away from all of my dwarves and never cause me any grief. Honestly, I think this quote from the wiki is nonsense.

While an individual may not pose a great threat to a fortress, they usually occur in large mobs who are more than eager to throw themselves at your entrances, whether they are guarded by hardened veterans and traps or not. They are capable of causing serious injury to unarmed civilians but are rather pathetic when faced with a modestly equipped, halfway competent military.

Anyone else agree?

[Baffler]

That's accurate in the strictest sense but there's a bug right now where animals will almost never attack civilian dwarves except in self defense. Militia dwarves will still be targeted, but if they don't run into any guards even things like trolls and lions will usually just peacefully wander through your fortress, maybe topple a building or attack a cat, then wander back out.

[K4el]

That's accurate in the strictest sense but there's a bug right now where animals will almost never attack civilian dwarves except in self defense. Militia dwarves will still be targeted, but if they don't run into any guards even things like trolls and lions will usually just peacefully wander through your fortress, maybe topple a building or attack a cat, then wander back out.

is that really a bug though? It's not so different from a Bear or a Moose wandering into a small town. People only tend to get hurt when they interfere.

[bloop_bleep]

Well, I'm not quite sure about that. Giant blind cave ogres running scared from local fishermen isn't that realistic.

[Derpy Dev]

Well, I'm not quite sure about that. Giant blind cave ogres running scared from local fishermen isn't that realistic.

Mostly because they're blind and can't see the fishermen, but I get what you're saying.

[mikekchar]

Yeah, my feeling is that while the balance hasn't been achieved yet, people are mostly used to the old days of "everything is out to kill you".  I've spent a lot of time out in the woods when I was younger and even bears want absolutely no part of you if they can avoid it.  Wolves may attack you if you have a dog (they see it as competition), but if you go out in the woods alone, they will keep a healthy distance.  The new system seems a lot more reasonable to me.  However, there should probably be *some* things that actually try to attack you, so it's probably gone a little bit too far the other way.

[Werdna]

To be fair, what I remember of the old system was that animals were peaceful until they randomly enraged (with certain animals seemingly more prone to enrage than others?).  So they generally shied away, but repeated near contact would lead to an attack, usually when the animal group wandered to close to the fort entrance.  If that animal was large, it could cause some real havoc.  This was a big reason people dug a moat or built a palisade straight off.

I thought that system was just right myself, and added a lot more tension to the pre-ambush stage of a fort.  The loss of that and ambushes has made the early game rather eventless IMHO.

[IndigoFenix]

Right now, all non-sapient creatures have neutral personalities on average (same as humans) which is geared mainly towards self-preservation.  Individual creatures vary though; so occasionally you will find a wild animal with a particularly violent personality and these may attack.  If you want more of these, you can mod their average personalities so most members of the species are violent or brave.

[Derpy Dev]

The giant honey badger around my fortresses are a bigger trouble than anything else I've seen. The keep becoming enraged and attacking my dwarves. But they are many times more dangerous than anything I have seen in the caverns.

Not even the cave crocodiles attack you and go on rampages through your fortress anymore.

[Dunamisdeos]

Yeah the bug is generally that EVERYTHING, including creatures that are supposed to aggressive (like trogs) will run away in fear from anything.

It's not intended, therefore a bug. Everything behaves like a scared moose.

[bloop_bleep]

I believe the exception with honey badgers, carp, etc. is due to that they feel "cornered" in their habitats, so they attack in "self-defense."

[King Kitteh]

The giant honey badger around my fortresses are a bigger trouble than anything else I've seen. The keep becoming enraged and attacking my dwarves. But they are many times more dangerous than anything I have seen in the caverns.

Not even the cave crocodiles attack you and go on rampages through your fortress anymore.

That's because they have the [PRONE_TO_RAGE:10] token, which gives them a chance (10%) to flip out and attack with no provocation.

This might actually be a good way to make creatures attack more, just give them [PRONE_TO_RAGE:<whatever percent you want>] and they'll become willing to attack randomly (or all the time if at 100%).

[IndigoFenix]

PRONE_TO_RAGE is kind of "gamey" though.  Enraged creatures will not show any restraint and will try to attack any potential enemy, even if hopelessly outnumbered or outmatched.  Also, they don't get tired and will ignore pain while raging, which is why honey badgers are so dangerous.

Code: [Select]

[PERSONALITY:VIOLENT:90:95:100]
[PERSONALITY:BRAVERY:90:95:100]

Drop this in a creature and they will become much more likely to attack instead of run away, but they will still run away if they are losing a fight.

[Derpy Dev]

So I drop that code onto a creature, and it becomes violent?

No thanks, I got enough to worry about from the honey badgers.

[Squirrelloid]

Yeah, my feeling is that while the balance hasn't been achieved yet, people are mostly used to the old days of "everything is out to kill you".  I've spent a lot of time out in the woods when I was younger and even bears want absolutely no part of you if they can avoid it.  Wolves may attack you if you have a dog (they see it as competition), but if you go out in the woods alone, they will keep a healthy distance.  The new system seems a lot more reasonable to me.  However, there should probably be *some* things that actually try to attack you, so it's probably gone a little bit too far the other way.

See, I liked the old days when Carp was the deadliest anti-dwarf weapon known to elf, and the elephants didn't have to be undead to be a menace.  The wilderness being out to get you was part of the !!fun!!.  The only thing I've had attack my fortress that wasn't an invader of some sort was a honey badger, and a regular dwarf beat it at wrestling!