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[Old School Gamer]

I've got a fort going in an area with a river running smack dab  in the middle of the spot where I want my fort entrance to be.  

It will be on a flat plain between two cliff faces to the east and west.  I plan on building a channel from the face of the west cliff to an area near the east cliff, on both the north and south side of the fort, and then build a walled area with a moat around it in the middle of that. I will do this so that my catapulters will keep firing due to the gobbos being far enough away, as the little green bastards try to figure out how to make it across the far channels.

But here's the problem:  There's a river running from north to south through the area that I would have the far channel dug into.  So the gobs could just walk across the 'brook' area that the river's at, laughing all the way.

I've got a couple of questions:

1.  If I just dig an artificial waterfall right below the river which goes to the bottom Z-level, will the water disappear into nowhere? ie, just cut the river off at the outside moat?  (My other thought was to divert it 3-4 Z-levels down and then let it flow off the side of the map, but I don't think it's possible to dig out the last row of squares; or I could dig a channel for it 3-4 Z-levels down, then let it bubble up to the surface again on the other side of the outside moat)

2.  If a moat is filled to the topmost Z-level, to where it isn't a brook but is 7-deep water, can gobs get across that by swimming?

This is basically the layout:
....~..
---~--
|...~.|
|...~.|
|...~.|
|...~.|
|...~.|
---~--
....~..

~ = River
| & - = Outside Moat
. = Ground

Thanks for any help!

Edit: it is a temperate map so I think the river will most likely freeze during the winter.  I had another idea too that I could divert the river below the moat only at the channel spot, then even let it flow on the surface inside the channeled area, giving my dwarves their own private walled river area to play in.

[ February 29, 2008: Message edited by: Old School Gamer ]

[Sowelu]

I'm pretty sure you can't dig out the very -bottom-, either.  So no getting rid of water that way.

As for moats:  If your map does not FREEZE, you're fine and they won't swim.  If it does freeze, they'll walk right across.

[Old School Gamer]

quote:Originally posted by Sowelu:
<STRONG>I'm pretty sure you can't dig out the very -bottom-, either.  So no getting rid of water that way.

As for moats:  If your map does not FREEZE, you're fine and they won't swim.  If it does freeze, they'll walk right across.</STRONG>

mmm didn't think about that.. so the most likely solution is to divert it a couple Z's down, then bring it back to the surface on the other side I think.

[GRead]

Ok, assuming I properly understand things...
1: you can only make an endless waterfall if your map actually has a chasm in it; the bottom layer is otherwise just the bottom layer and will fill up and overflow into the rest of your fort as any other level would.

2: If a moat is filled and unfrozen non-flying and non-swimming creatures cannot get across.

As a note, if you have a brook in your map, channeling a single level down will make it water; so if you don't want the gobs to walk across your brook, just channel across it and it'll be water.

[Old School Gamer]

Cool I didn't know about channeling brooks.. if I were to do that the entire moat would then be filled with water to the top of it though, and I really want to have an 'empty space' moat.

I'm currently doing the designations so that it will be like this, looking at it from the side underground:

~~~~(--_--)~~~~~
...~~~~~~~~~....

_ = channel
~ = river
. = solid rock
( & ) = wall
- = floor

I'd probably do this at both the north and south end, so that the river still runs on the surface inside of the channel.

Note also that I will have a Z-level with a floor below the channeled Z-level, so that the river doesn't rush up into the moat from below.

My only concern is what the water will do, whether it will bubble and froth around in the turmoil of changing Z-levels or will it just follow the channel without any whitewater type action.

Edit #2:  (the floor and walls would be on different Z-levels)

Also, I think I'll only be able to do this if the map freezes.  I would otherwise only be able to cut out one river floor tile and then it'd be inundated, but one tile probably wouldn't be enough to divert it.  Plus, putting in the walls would be impossible without it freezing too.
[ February 29, 2008: Message edited by: Old School Gamer ]

[ February 29, 2008: Message edited by: Old School Gamer ]

[Deon]

Just be careful not to undermine all your fortress. You don't want all your dwarven home to collapse, do you?
P.S. Also it's strange to see such a project: usually people make efforts to remove the water under the fortress (I mean aquifier), you do opposite things.
Also if you have an aquifier, remember that it can soak the infinite amount of water. I had an ocean drained this way.

[ February 29, 2008: Message edited by: Deon ]

[Old School Gamer]

For the first couple of Z-levels underground the area which the fortress encompasses will be pretty small.  I've been building forts with an actual civil war kind of fort area on a flat plain on the surface Z-level with catapults and a moat all around, and then a cube-shaped dwarf area below this surface fort.  You can create quite an efficient fort this way, everything within a 5-6 level stair climb and 50 square's  reach for each dwarf.

Mostly I'm making them this way because they're very easy to figure out a layout for, and they're good for defense.. I'm trying to perfect my strategy for map conquest once the army arc is complete - quick & easy forts which support large armies is really all I'm going for.

I've continued only one of these kinds of fort for more than 3 years, and after about 4 years I had 140 dwarves in it and very few casualties at that point, but then the army arc started and I took a break for awhile.

Now that it seems at least somewhat feasible that current versions' saves may be usable for the completed army arc, I'm thinking again about perfecting the strategy.

I'm a power-gamer at heart I guess,  but I also try to make my dwarves survive and enjoy their existence, which maybe is also strange here    

I'm looking forward too to when gobs have more tools at their disposal for getting into our forts.

edit:  that's 3-4 years, not seasons.

[ February 29, 2008: Message edited by: Old School Gamer ]

[Sularus]

You could always try to cause a collapse into the river that will have stone blocking it and then dig secondary routes around the river. I plan on doing this for a massive dam I will eventually build.