Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[ChairmanPoo]

 That example is not really good either, because if a primary care practitioner detects a tumor he should refer the patient to the specialist.  And that would be secondary prevention, anyway . A better example would be healthy lifestyle promotion (resulting in less disease thereof) versus not doing so and having to foot the bill later.

[Frumple]

Eh, they do refer it on, but something caught early is generally going to cost several degrees of magnitude less, and be substantially less likely to end with a corpse. Lifestyle stuff is a thing, but even just more consistent/common checkups and whatnot make a damn big difference. Dollar for dollar, investment into preventative care/health maintenance (for lack of a better word at th'mo') saves a lot more lives and prevents quite a bit more suffering. Is reason number N+1 why the U.S. healthcare system sucks donkey balls for a lot of the population, since it can pretty easily discourage exactly that sort of care.

E: Though, just to clarify, you still totes need specialists/emergency care folks et al. All the improved building specs and fire safety training in the world ain't going to stop us from needing firefighters. S'just that, while generally you want an across the board increase to that sort of investment (at the least as population grows), you're probably going to be better off if that sort of stuff isn't invested in as heavily as the stuff that makes it so people don't need them.

[ChairmanPoo]

Secondary prevention. But there are many things you cant screen for. You need a way to look for whatever you want to screen  for. It must also allow for early diagnosis in a timely fashion. The course of many diseases means that you can't really do this. In fact in diseases you CAN screen for it makes some people fall through the cracks

[Sheb]

Do you have an example of such an anti-Powell intervention working out?

I'll try to dig up through my copy of Small Wars for a decently sourced exemple.

[Antioch]

My unpopular idea regarding that is that people are really eager to equate the mujahdeen to the Taliban because it helps the "dae AmeriKKKa?" line and fail to recognize that the mujahdeen were a generalized group of resistance fighters who aren't all the same, and while they contained the proto-Talibs they also contained what would go on to become the Northern Alliance/United Islamic Front who were against the Taliban.

The NA also was partially lead by Ahmad Shah Massoud, who was probably the single greatest hope for Afghanistan. Well-respected and wanted to bring the country closer to modern standards. He was assassinated two days before 9/11 and attempted to warn the US that it was being planned, though he did not know the details. Incidentally, Osama bin Laden said of him that "as long as this man lives, we will never be victorious".

So by "idea" I more mean something along the lines of "fact".

It is bizarre how much Afghanistan lost with Massoud. A leader who is so capable and with a vision of democracy and equality is almost a unique occurrence.

[Strife26]

The American gestalt guarantees that we're incapable of fighting a long war to a satisfactory result, with the possible exception of the Indian Wars, and calling the various Indian wars a cohesive thing is pretty problematic.

[Egan_BW]

Smash what we don't like, grab what we do, tip our fedoras to the locals and leave them in the shattered remains of their lives as we go home to loving families. It's the american way.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Smash what we don't like, grab what we do, tip our fedoras to the locals and leave them in the shattered remains of their lives as we go home to loving families. It's the american way.

I just wish we could own it more instead of trying to grab the moral high ground.

[Folly]

I believe that racism is rational.

I fully understand that many horrible actions have been, and continue to be, motivated by racism. And I appreciate the importance of ensuring that these crimes are not repeated. But you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Different races have verifiable physical and psychological differences and we are fools to pretend that those do not exist. We can teach our children how to be accepting and fair to those who are different without deceiving them with lies that we are all exactly the same.

I'm not suggesting that people should be granted different human rights based on the color of their skin. I'm just saying that it's rational to approach strangers with measured expectations based on the sociological trends that their collective race have established as commonplace.

[redwallzyl]

I believe that racism is rational.

I fully understand that many horrible actions have been, and continue to be, motivated by racism. And I appreciate the importance of ensuring that these crimes are not repeated. But you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Different races have verifiable physical and psychological differences and we are fools to pretend that those do not exist. We can teach our children how to be accepting and fair to those who are different without deceiving them with lies that we are all exactly the same.

I'm not suggesting that people should be granted different human rights based on the color of their skin. I'm just saying that it's rational to approach strangers with measured expectations based on the sociological trends that their collective race have established as commonplace.

*Anthropologist twitches

What did you just say...that better be a joke.

[helmacon]

I mean... culture tends to often divide down racial lines (unfortunately), and different cultures present different social challenges and risks. Being aware of the culture you are interacting with is the solution to that. Avoid ethnocentrism and all that.

The idea that we are physically and psychologically different on any meaningful level is kinda bullshit though.


This is...
I would just urge everyone to tread carefully here and remember the rules in the OP.

[Folly]

The idea that we are physically and psychologically different on any meaningful level is kinda bullshit though.

So you're claiming that it's just a coincidence that pro basketball teams are predominately black? Or that the kids with the best grades are almost always Asian?

[Reelya]

Asian grades are due to culture.

And remember it was within living memory that they used to claim Italians and Irish people had genetically inferior IQ.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/2012/08/14/raceiq-irish-iq-chinese-iq/

First, Lynn was hardly unique among leading IQ experts in characterizing the Irish as being low IQ. For example, Hans Eysenck, one of the foremost IQ researchers of the 20th century said exactly the same thing in his 1971 book “Race, Intelligence, & Education,” claiming that the Irish IQ was very close to that of American blacks, and that the Irish/English IQ gap was almost exactly the same size as the black/white gap in the U.S., being roughly a full standard deviation. Eysenck’s stated position unsurprisingly caused a considerable furor in the British media, including all sorts of angry responses and even (facetious) threats of violence. So the huge and apparently well-designed 1972 study of 3,466 Irish schoolchildren which placed the mean Irish IQ at just 87 hardly seems an absurd outlier.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

In addition, height is genetic but it isn't racial: race doesn't exist on the genetic level in any rigorous manner. Most other traits are the same way. Since all humans can swap genes when creating offspring, obviously no genetic advantage can hold racial exclusivity. Even if during the more isolated periods of history such a thing could be held onto, it would rapidly spread throughout the entire human genome the second someone decided to get jiggy with a foreigner. Any serious genetic advantage will reach near-100% of a species (generationally) soon after it is introduced, this is a known constant for life.

The reason basketball teams are predominantly black is also cultural. There's some research out of Japan that postulates that any one culture can only "hold" up to four major sports, less if there's a low population. Basketball is the sport that dominates America's urban areas most, therefore black players are more likely to be invested in it. After a certain point, the perception ingrained the idea of NBA=black and made it self-reinforcing.

And racism isn't rational. Racism is a specific outpouring of xenophobia, which is itself a side effect of the competitive instinct that exists in social animals; i.e. humans. Competition between societies is to some degree rational when it cannot be avoided, but racism is just stupid.

[redwallzyl]

I mean... culture tends to often divide down racial lines (unfortunately), and different cultures present different social challenges and risks. Being aware of the culture you are interacting with is the solution to that. Avoid ethnocentrism and all that.

The idea that we are physically and psychologically different on any meaningful level is kinda bullshit though.


This is...
I would just urge everyone to tread carefully here and remember the rules in the OP.

not directed at you directly.

it doesn't though most of the time. culture divides along many lines and is tied in with geography, shared history, language, traditions exc. they also aren't monolith things. race is a cultural construct as well capable of being incorporated into identity or not, while also being incredibly arbitrary.  they all mix and blend and influence on and other. they are also are all unique and were built on what worked in the past and the events that influenced peoples thinking. and yes its incredibly important that people understand others culture when working with them. people value things differently and have different ideas of what is fair and expected of people. their are always reasons behind everything however, even if the people themselves couldn't tell you why. its the folly of the last few centenaries to think that "our" way is best. everyone is guilty of it and often their is no "best" simply what works. you cant just pull a cog from a machine and slap a different "superior" one in there. everything was built to work together and "improving/fixing" often ignores the reasons for structures to exist int he first place. people don't always do things to the end you might think they are doing it to. don't assume that the "primitive" thing they do is just outdated. it exists as a reflection of the environment. as shown through history people will chance themselves when the environment changes around them and invalidates the old structures. you cant force it. and yes people must be careful and avoid ethnocentrism. not saying that this is for you but more for me and people who want a more detailed explanation. I'm also not saying some things people do aren't bad, people can be really shitty, but to often people think the shittyness of the present is a reflection on everyone. humans are shitty to each other at a fairly consistent rate and the shit generally increases not due to culture but power. sometimes that shit can bleed over as justification for the power and as a means to perpetuate it. their nothing unique about that, that's just humans.



i will wright this to lay down the facts for people to see and make this clear. I'm not suggesting you hold this view.


"race" is not a biological thing is a purely cultural construct. its often concocted by one group about another group that has some trait, usually different color skin, and is far enough away and limited in contact that they can be generalized. all humans are just as slimier to other humans everywhere. when their physical traits are take in aggregate its clear that one person shares no more traits with their neighbor then someone on the other side of the world. we just picked one trait out that not even everyone in the local area has and say that makes them a "race". humans are a huge series of overlaying gradients.