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[SquareUnit]

The title sais it all, I helplessly watched as my poor militia got sliced to pieces and my fort bathed in blood.
I took it until the very end, thinking I was deserving it all, but I'm a bit skeptical about a lot of detail of what happened.

Year 252, month 7 and a couple of days. I got a steady 90 dwarf fortress that is lacking of nothing particular and the forges are running hot.
The value is 550000, nothing impressive, but it would eventually attract quite a crowd... 40 armed goblin, 15 trolls and probably 25 beak dog
suddenly showed off. While my 10 fully copper armed dwarf took down half the invading army, they eventually got overrun.

So... What did I do wrong?

It's the first time I take a game that seriously and also the first time I get such a big invasion THAT EARLY! Usually it does not happen
until year 3-4 and even 5. Before we dwelve into my multiple questions, I just wanna mention that I wish not to abuse the game mechanics to make
it easy on me. I use traps, but dont feel like over using them in a cheap way. No atom smashing and such. I wanna fuck them up good
with dwarf power!

-How big should my army have been at that point? No iron was available, only copper and no bronze.

-Why was I attacked that early?

-Should I have trained marksdwarves before close quarter militia?

-How can I make brooks non walkable so I can use it as a moat? I can't dig as it's 1 deep but still walkable.

-My war dogs would not leave their assigned pen even while next to enemies. Should I have freed them?

-Can troll destroy a raised bridge?

-Should I simply wall myself off and wait it out? Is that cheap or is everyone doing it?

-Most important question! Is it possible to make dwarves follow formation and not go past a certain point? I wish them to stay inside the wall borders but they kept
exiting the fort to chase the goblin archers... That got them killed more than anything else. Can we keep them in line? Dwarves seem like very unruly fighters.

[Dunamisdeos]

ANSWER TIME!!!

-Copper is extremely heavy and effectively the worst armor-grade material. Recommend Iron as a minimum. If you must use copper, I recommend mail shirts. They weigh less and are less likely to interfere with dodging (best defense, no be there).

-How many years in was that invasion? I usually get at least a raiding party after 2 years.

-I usually train melee immediately, since it takes them so much more training in order to be effective. In my experience any idiot can pick up a crossbow and be effective en masse.

-Dig a moat separately and fill it from the brook.

-I recall that war animals have issues now that discipline/fear is implemented. Unsure if related. Look for a blue [!]

-Nothing can destroy raised bridges unless you designate their deconstruction. They are immovable and impregnable to hostile forces.

-I totes mcgoats wall myself in with a raising drawbridge, but some wrong people consider it cheap.

-Military dwarves will tunnel vision on enemies within their sight. With recent updates, even marksdwarves have been known to charge wildly, flailing their wooden crossbows with lots of courage but not much actual effect.

------

Anyway for melee dwarves I usually keep em' cloistered away until they are at least adept in weapon skill, preferably also adept in armor/dodge.

Also, copper WEAPONRY is a different story. Blunt copper weaponry is moderately effective.

[PatrikLundell]

- Some people turtle, some don't. It's a matter of how you want to play in your sandbox. If you wait out a siege the invaders leave after either one season or one year (seemingly random selection of one of the two).
- Once dorfs enter combat they're out of control. The only way to somewhat control them is to station them at a location out of sight from the enemy and then either order them to attack or lower the drawbridge. Note that changing stations is not recommended, as dorfs tend to shed their armor in favor of new shinier pieces coming off the production line when changing station, as well as sneak off to stock up on booze, food, armor pieces, or sleep.
- You can improve your fighting odds by using drawbridges to cut off some of the invasion force, letting your dorfs hack up a few enemies at a time. It doesn't matter how good a dorf is, as eventually it will be overcome by fatigue and get killed by an invader who removes the helmet of the unconscious dorf and cuts the throat. Thus, they need time to catch their breath in between the waves.
-Marksdorfs need to be kept locked up so they're blocked from charging when out of bolts. Note that the morons suddenly get genius level pathing intelligence when it comes to charging, you your containment has to be good. They'll easily scale walls and fortifications, for instance, so you need a roof.

[mikekchar]

- Once dorfs enter combat they're out of control.

I think this is not always true, but it depends on the dwarf.  Military dwarfs are uncontrollable, but you can often engineer a retreat by toggling their military status and burrowing them somewhere else.  I think the key is that they have to be frightened to run away.  Anyway, the way to do this is to create an alert for the squad with a burrow.  Then just keep redefining the burrow.

If you wish to stage your military, create blinds so that they can wait without seeing the enemy.  You can burrow them behind the blind.  Don't station them in the blind, instead burrow them.  That way if they see the enemy, the worst thing they will do is run away.

I've played with this a bit, and it works a bit.  I haven't had a good opportunity lately, though (none of my active forts are near goblins).

[Werdna]

When your population exceeds 80, be ready for sieges.  In all my forts I make a habit of starting military training with 2-4 dwarves when the 1st migration wave rolls in, and trying to fill out 3/4 to a full squad when the 2nd migration wave comes.  By the time I hit 80 dwarves I usually have at least 20 dwarves adequately trained.

I would not recommend marksdwarves until you're more comfortable with melee.  They are much less effective than they once were, and they require a significant amount of fiddly fort design to make them work effectively.  They also train much more slowly than melee dwarves.

Pat's recommendation to use multiple bridges to seal and separate the invaders into bite-sized pieces for your defenders is excellent.  You will often find that a siege can be squashed by merely sealing off and killing half the invaders - the others sealed outside often lose heart and will flee.

Moats aren't terribly useful, they are more aesthetic than effective and generally you want to completely avoid having your dwarves fight anywhere near water because they will dodge into it.  Your time is better spent building walls instead.

There is no shame in turtling.  Be prepared to lose a caravan opportunity as a penalty.

Try to design an entrance path that will string out invaders for your melee.  I find that versus a huge invasion, it makes an enormous difference whether or not your dwarves are facing their army all at once, or as a 'string' to be gobbled up.  If you make a long path you will reduce the chances of your dwarves charging out into the center of their main force.

For instance, stationing a single watchdog at an entrance has the effect of causing the nearest invaders that sight it to 'charge' to kill it, while other invaders further back out of sight range will only slowly meander forward.  Once the charging invaders kill it, they are now farther ahead than the marchers - you've strung their forces out some. 

[Dunamisdeos]

For marksdwarves, I recommend a blind.

I place them in some sort of sealed perch (pill-box style) with ammo stockpiled inside. I limit their vision with a blind so that anything that enters their field of vision is already within crossbow range.

[GhostDwemer]

One solution for large sieges when you are uncertain of your ability to defeat them all is to practice "divide and conquer." Create an enclosed "killing zone" with a raising bridge to protect it. For added security, use a long-ish entry hall with bridges at both ends, that way if too many enemies get past the first bridge at one time, you can slam the second bridge shut. Let in a few enemies at a time then close the bridge. Deal with the enemies then deal with the aftermath by getting any injured dwarves to the hospital and letting marksdwarves restock their ammo. Rinse and repeat until the siege is broken.

As other folks have mentioned, copper is quite inferior to the iron weapons and armor that goblins typically carry, so try to get some better armor and weapon material before engaging in hand to hand. For your first siege, you might want to rely on traps. You can take out any size siege with a few cage traps and a bridge to let enemies in a few at a time.

[steel jackal]

if you dont have steel you have two options, #1 candy, #2 import steel.
you can make a danger room to improve your dwarves ability to dodge
make a safe room that you can seal for your civilians to run to during a siege, i recommend a dining hall that is fully stocked with food and booze, that way if your army is defeated you can attempt to wait them out.
marksdwarves have some issues, i wouldent recommend messing with them at all. there are ways to use them but they can be a bit complicated.

[SquareUnit]

Wow thank you very much for those very varied, detailed answers. With what you guys all brought up,
a couple more question hit my mind.

-If there is only copper and bronze to be made from available metal on embark, wait for merchants
and goblinite to get a properly equipped military? Cage traps be come an early mush if I wish to retreives their equipment without having to kill them.

-Copper spiked ball traps? Worth it? Should I really load 10 weapons per traps? It was recommended on the wiki.

-Blind for marksdwarves? If you don't do this what happens? Do they get out of position to get in range, even going as far as exiting the for? That's a bit dumb...

I really wish I could make them stand in place and make shield walls. In the dwarven folklore it feels like dwarves are very organized individuals. It feels out of place that they are so dumb in combat. Also, I like the divide and conquer technique, I will try it out

[SquareUnit]

marksdwarves have some issues, i wouldent recommend messing with them at all. there are ways to use them but they can be a bit complicated.

Like jumping fro the top of the wall unto the fray? That just so, fucking, stupid... It should be super easy to fix with mods or even toady. I've been playing this game for 5-6 years now, waiting for the siege update of forteress mode. I can't wait for it anymore... It's hard to resist the urge to be cheap as the game is being cheap on you quite often...

[Dunamisdeos]

Bronze is effective enough, but can be time consuming to create. I've found tin to be somewhat rare.

Copper spiked ball traps would be effective. They do blunt damage, which copper is good at (it's heavy and dense).

The blind is just a refinement in my opinion. I have made a little MS paint to illustrate. I have found that it helps prevent my crossbows from being outranged by elite goblin archers. I have also used multiple blinds to create multiple fields of fire to ensure that all my marksdwarves don't pick one target. The way to keep them at their parch and firing is to lock the door behind them so they can't path out.

ALSO, you can remove their equipment while they are inside a cage! See below.

A danger room is super exploity, but I have used them on occasion.

http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Danger_room
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Cage#How_to_disarm_hostiles_in_cages

Spoiler: BLIND. (click to show/hide)

[Werdna]

I still recommend, skip marksdwarves to start with.  Learn melee dwarves first, then marksdwarves.  I love marksdwarves.  I would not recommend them as a way to beat your first siege.

• They are less deadly (remember, copper bolts vs iron!)
• They train slower, use up ammo, and require complicated ammo-swaps unless you are swimming in metal
• You must learn several building techniques first to make marksdwarves effective and prevent their suicidal urge to join in melee. 
• They have tons of fiddly issues that you must know tricks to bypass (ie getting them to reload, ammo allocation, forcing non-elites to stand against fortifications, etc)

About the only thing I can think of that a new player might need marksdwarves for is driving off irritating flying wildlife (keas).

I'd focus on basics - traps, walls, bridges, the resulting kill zones, and a well-trained and equipped melee.  Once you have that going, learn marksdwarves at leisure.

[StarWars1981]

Traps and especially cages are your friend.
No, they will not enter a trap hallway reliably. Idk what it is, but they appear to remember if you've set a hallway as a cagetrap-killzone-sort of.
However you won't lose dwarves.

Marksdwarves: Require engineering and fiddling to work with; those nice copper and artifact wooden crossbows work so much better up close and personal where the mace can get you too ... so don't give  them ANY pathing options. They're too dumb for it.

Meleedwarves: Bronze, at LEAST, for armor and edged weapons, before you bother engaging hostiles. Your dwarves' skill levels matter more, but make certain they're not going to die to a single missed block and a lost arm/head/whip strike.

For cagetraps, you might work with a set of max-size retracting drawbridges over a pit just full of cages. Just dump sieges down there all at once, if they dodge the cages ... marksdwarves can so easily be stationed around to pincushion them on their way to Legendary Marksdwarf +102.

Mostly just enjoy everything. If your fort becomes a failed bloodbath, enjoy it. If your fortress lives through everything ... engineer an apocalypse. If the candy wins ... well enjoy that too and send dozens of adventurers in until you succeed at taking it back!

[SquareUnit]

Mostly just enjoy everything. If your fort becomes a failed bloodbath, enjoy it. If your fortress lives through everything ... engineer an apocalypse. If the candy wins ... well enjoy that too and send dozens of adventurers in until you succeed at taking it back!

Words of the wise. I've seen candy already and breached into the circus a couple of time by accident. I'm not sure I'll ever have the patience to get rid of all the clowns and claim the circus as mine. Although, it would be a pretty epic thing to achieve.

Ty again to everyone who shared their experience.

[Fleeting Frames]

Most has been addressed, so...

- Your army can be however big you want it to be, provided you have some way to not have all your citizens die.

Still, being in army has numerous civilian benefits: sparring is the best way to boost applicable attributes, also satisfies a need for martial arts and uniforms can be used to cut back on clothing industry.

- You can designate brook tiles for channeling. Can't get them back after this, though.

- Other than bridges, forbidden hatches/doors can't be destroyed by trolls from  below either, provided there isn't a path to next to them from elsewhere. Though unlike bridges thieves can get through them.

-  As for what is too easy....Only you can answer that. Sufficiently clever trap system can kill anything in the game that tries to enter your fort; a single omni-legendary dwarf with a shield and steel+ sharp weapon could probably have killed that siege (almost) anywhere on the map if they loitered outside without entering the killbox (though they might lose to a webber or duster on open field).

If your fort is sealed, only ghosts and berserk/reanimated/bloodsucking/were- creatures from inside the fort can threaten you, though, and that's rather reduced problem space. Opinions on having this vary from "I always use this" to "I never use this".