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Author Topic: Fallacy's BYOR 2: Game over! Post-game write up up.  (Read 99779 times)

Tiruin

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 2(6/9): Day 3: Off to ply his wares in the afterlife
« Reply #660 on: April 04, 2017, 02:57:18 am »

PFP because of reasons
Hello everyone. My time bomb has been set to explode tomorrow. Who have I set it on? TDS?, 4mask?, Doll? Or is this a bluff? What I will say is that I might disarm it, if I get some good answers from my target.
Important.
> Why did you do that?
> It is a specific person or it is multiple people?
>...Your good answers come from interaction and asking.
Yet you have only asked 3 people.
Have you gained or gleaned anything thus far from the previous days?

>> What time 'tomorrow' does that occur? Tonight? Day tomorrow?

Tiruin, mind outlining any relevant parts of your role you feel you should share with us, since you have a Webadict item and have claimed your rolename but not, to my knowledge, any powers.
Knowing he gave you stuff before he ded, I do believe I have one thing here.
Me and wubbywubs shared info on a lot of things lately--I have an open request for anyone who wishes to join me for tonight. Who would like to join me! :D I would suggest BHK in the least, thanks to my and web's notes, to accept.

I am aware that webby did act last night and a few other folks here are open to ideas.

4maskwolf
BHK
Doll
TDS
Juicebox
>> How goes your quicktopic?


THing is--web planned to gift and then collapse the QTs together. >_>
This is...his parting gift in a way, so hello light-investigates :3

Webadict didn't get me anything. I don't know if he tried to or not.
REALLY NOW O_O
Doll: I am now suspicious of you until I get FoU's feedback. :V
...In part because it's all in the QT with Web .-.; so it's not a vote.

Nothing happened to me. I'm also a vanilla townie due to what happened yesterday.
Sure you are.
Can you back it up with something directly understandable, please, because since ever your viewpoint has lacked this sense of directness, and moreso the sense of general ideas. It's nice to note that 'nothing' happened to you. :v

And I think these days are seemingly nice for a massclaim.

TBF: I also think that, barring any circumstances abiding--today is a good day for you to RETURN.
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juicebox

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 2(6/9): Day 3: Off to ply his wares in the afterlife
« Reply #661 on: April 04, 2017, 06:23:29 am »

PFP because of reasons
Hello everyone. My time bomb has been set to explode tomorrow. Who have I set it on? TDS?, 4mask?, Doll? Or is this a bluff? What I will say is that I might disarm it, if I get some good answers from my target.
Important.
> Why did you do that?
> It is a specific person or it is multiple people?
>...Your good answers come from interaction and asking.
Yet you have only asked 3 people.
Have you gained or gleaned anything thus far from the previous days?

PFP because of reasons
Hello everyone. My time bomb has been set to explode tomorrow. Who have I set it on? TDS?, 4mask?, Doll? Or is this a bluff? What I will say is that I might disarm it, if I get some good answers from my target.
Important.
> Why did you do that?
> It is a specific person or it is multiple people?
>...Your good answers come from interaction and asking.
Yet you have only asked 3 people.
Have you gained or gleaned anything thus far from the previous days?

>> What time 'tomorrow' does that occur? Tonight? Day tomorrow?

Basically, I'm attempting to use the threat of the bomb to pressure multiple people, and also trying to have a little bit of fun with my role. And don't worry, your questions will come soon enough.

Also, by tomorrow I mean N3
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doll

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 2(6/9): Day 3: Off to ply his wares in the afterlife
« Reply #662 on: April 04, 2017, 06:40:58 am »

Juicebox
TDS's role is only balanced for town and mafia if town has more reliable access to a way to kill him than you (1 shot, timedelay) or BHK (literally as likely to kill himself as his target, absolutely unreliable in any case).
For reference, I don't have a kill.
BHK
Why'd you try to kill me anyway?
Also I don't like the idea that 'kill protection is a non-mafia trait'. Not only is it not true in the general sense, (hostile) third parties are have kill protection semi-frequently. In particular, Webadict's roleflip suggests that there may (though there may not) be third parties.
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doll

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 2(6/9): Day 3: Off to ply his wares in the afterlife
« Reply #663 on: April 04, 2017, 07:58:22 am »

Do you have anything else that clears him? Also, who are you suspicious of?
No. I have nothing to clear TDS. I'm actually more suspicious of him after the night and especially after his claim to have only had one ability. During the night, I kept coming back to the thought of a 1 man scumteam TDS. Now, this seems absurd and unlikely given TBF's role text, and the fact that it basically turns the game into a bastard. However, with the Webadict role revelations and his claim, I'm inclined to consider alternatively; perhaps TDS's extremely anti-town game is because he's a survivor. Now, I doubt this, particularly in light of how easily TBF could change the numbers against town's favor (TBF's role in general is almost one I'd prefer never existed, though I do know that if he hadn't been roleblocked I'd be playing as a highly caffeinated and oversweetened cup of coffee rather than as a mary sue written by a sub-par children's author and furthermore have the advantage of being rolled onto a team where I am an 'extra member' beyond the balanced limits); regardless, he isn't clear and I wouldn't mind his being killed by, say, the wrath of god.

I haven't posted a reads list this game (has anyone?) so I'll do that now.

TBF: I also think that, barring any circumstances abiding--today is a good day for you to RETURN.
As a town player, I agree strongly with this sentiment.


Reads, from most to least happy to lynch today:
2/3 are scum
4maskwolf
There's nothing wrong with his play, other than where he claimed that Cinder was responsible for TBF's being blocked (which so far as I can tell is a false narrative), and the vagueness of the information he has given out about his role (consider; what is now an 'earlier claim' to having one ability is his having used the phrase 'my ability'), and the way he took action to redirect the kill rather than just claiming his ability and letting the vig decide what to do. Actually suspicious enough to vote. 4maskwolf
Juicebox
Replaced over a phenomenally unhelpful and generally inactive player, has continued to be pretty unhelpful. Asks for reads but doesn't provide them. Has a claimed killing power, but is trying to use it as pressure in a really poor way. Didn't target me last night, even though it would have been the logical choice.
Tiruin
Very strong daygame, supported by a lack of suspicion from a very townie town player who had her in a quicktopic for some time. Really, townie all around.
meta clear
BlackHeartKabal
Solid daygame for quite some time, claim has been externally verified, claimed own action in multiple cases, has been using core ability in precisely the way I would as town, core ability seems odd for mafia to have.
TheDarkStar
It's TheDarkStar. He's useless and plays against the town, but so did the town player we lynched, and his ability easily creates the situation where he would be highly disengaged from the game.
cute girl trapped in an old hag's body
doll
It's me, I'm me, don't lynch me.
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Tiruin

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 2(6/9): Day 3: Off to ply his wares in the afterlife
« Reply #664 on: April 04, 2017, 11:14:14 am »

PFP (ok not really "P", it's midnight but I lack time due to spotty connection)
@Doll: Would like input from you there. :P
Also you tried to kill BHK or...? given his post there?

Alsoalso a metaclear on TDS because of his role ABILITY doesn't equate with a clear on their alignment. :v Denoting FoU's note of how alignment + roles are done == isolated from each other; latter first, then former randomized.
cute girl trapped in an old hag's body
doll
It's me, I'm me, don't lynch me.
Old person gets hugs either way :I Then gets back to playing Mafia because these dudes be pretty precarious.

Also would love TBF's or anyone's input on my suggestion for him returning--because I considered that swaying either way, now would be a TON better than MYLO or LYLO considering anything outside of vote-manipulation abilities.

Somehow I recall somewhere on the Mafia boards that someone would mention if it WAS LYLO/MYLO, but trying to search it here gives no results. Somehow I'm attaching that idea to 'FoU said this' >_<

BHK
Why'd you try to kill me anyway?
Also I don't like the idea that 'kill protection is a non-mafia trait'. Not only is it not true in the general sense, (hostile) third parties are have kill protection semi-frequently. In particular, Webadict's roleflip suggests that there may (though there may not) be third parties.
Kill protection can also be a Mafia trait actually :O Considering the LOTS of people with kills around (*AHEM*), I'm seeing it as a neutral mark.
...Also I still don't understand BHK's post. :P But I trust him so syrups.
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TheBiggerFish

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 2(6/9): Day 3: Off to ply his wares in the afterlife
« Reply #665 on: April 04, 2017, 11:16:44 am »

Alright, let me just write up a really convoluted rolename real quick.
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doll

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 2(6/9): Day 3: Off to ply his wares in the afterlife
« Reply #666 on: April 04, 2017, 03:00:03 pm »

Also you tried to kill BHK or...? given his post there?
He tried to kill me using his ability (which has an equal chance of killing either of us so far as I can tell).
I have an ability which makes me immune to some undisclosed specific abilities, but I do not know what they are.
I presume that that ability blocked his kill.

I said TBF should come back at mylo/lylo because:
For lylo: either he rolls scum and wins, or he rolls town and town has an extra, clear player (and so are much better off than where they were, since he is town while dead)
For mylo: either he rolls scum and probably wins, or he rolls town and town is better off than it used to be because we're out of mylo and have a ml.
For reference, we're at mylo, so it's probably in his interests to come back in.

@Doll: Would like input from you there. :P
On what?
Webadict? So far as I can tell, he didn't interact with me last night.
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doll

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 2(6/9): Day 3: Off to ply his wares in the afterlife
« Reply #667 on: April 04, 2017, 03:26:17 pm »

EBWOP:
Tiruin (and others)
Do you still have an active quicktopic with Webadict?
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TheDarkStar

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 2(6/9): Day 3: Off to ply his wares in the afterlife
« Reply #668 on: April 04, 2017, 04:19:41 pm »

TDS: If you have an actual case on Tiruin, I'd like to hear it please

My case on Tiruin was essentially that I saw her and webadict colluding and Tiruin was behaving much differently than her meta. However, since the later part of yesterday she's been behaving much more normally. In addition, webadict flipped town.

Hello everyone. My time bomb has been set to explode tomorrow. Who have I set it on? TDS?, 4mask?, Doll? Or is this a bluff? What I will say is that I might disarm it, if I get some good answers from my target.

Why did you take this approach? If I preemptively refuse to answer questions from you until you claim who you set the bomb on, what will you do? Also, I'm worried that "good answers" is really subjective - if you were scum, it would be the perfect excuse to get rid of an annoying town player.

TDS so your Shakeragian power was your only power?
Incidentally, are you claiming to have visited no-one last night?


Why are you rolefishing?

4maskwolf
BHK
Doll
TDS
Juicebox
>> How goes your quicktopic?


Nonexistent - webadict never gave me anything.

Nothing happened to me. I'm also a vanilla townie due to what happened yesterday.
Sure you are.
Can you back it up with something directly understandable, please, because since ever your viewpoint has lacked this sense of directness, and moreso the sense of general ideas. It's nice to note that 'nothing' happened to you. :v

My role was literally one designed to have the only vote whether I'm living or dead. Now I lost that power and I'm a vanilla townie. I did nothing last night and as far as I know nothing happened to me.
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Tiruin

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 2(6/9): Day 3: Off to ply his wares in the afterlife
« Reply #669 on: April 04, 2017, 05:24:23 pm »

EBWOP:
Tiruin (and others)
Do you still have an active quicktopic with Webadict?
Yes. :P I'm storing all my notes there since FoU explicitly--well at least by post-flip--wrote that it's still active. So yeah. I did ask in the QT if it can be used by him in deadchat but that's what I infer; got no response from FoU so I dumped my notes until now anyway in there, still presuming upon the one note.
Quote
(1-Shot, Day): Trade Network: You can no longer use Market Research and Sales Pitch(they become Unusable), and all quicktopics made by Sales Pitch are closed. You gain a quicktopic with all living players you previously successfully used Sales Pitch on. You learn if there are any third parties in the quicktopic. Living players in the quicktopic may use Trade. If you die, the quicktopic remains intact.
Although he HAS NOT used this ability, I do not know if that last bit is applicable because perhaps FoU misplaced his 'retaining sentences' in another ability but yeah >_>

I still have a quicktopic. Unsure if active. Webadict can't post there presumably or hasn't yet--I've not seen him post; he's dead. (Usually dead people can't use the past quicktopics, or at least can't POST in them--in previous games Mafia can comment in deadchat about their partner, as I've seen though, but unsure in this case so I asked and still lack a response)

TDS: If you have an actual case on Tiruin, I'd like to hear it please

My case on Tiruin was essentially that I saw her and webadict colluding and Tiruin was behaving much differently than her meta. However, since the later part of yesterday she's been behaving much more normally. In addition, webadict flipped town.
W-wasn't your case before that to something I'm unsure about ...although looking back it is sensible in retrospect given the time in between and your posts. :v



@Doll: Would like input from you there. :P
On what?
Webadict? So far as I can tell, he didn't interact with me last night.
I-um...am unsure but it seems literally everyone missed it. Above the bolded list was a bolded question for everyone sans FoU and dead people (...I've no idea if they're possible to be included but eh :V assuming normal mafia rules that you can't target ded people unless explicitly said otherwise)

My role was literally one designed to have the only vote whether I'm living or dead. Now I lost that power and I'm a vanilla townie. I did nothing last night and as far as I know nothing happened to me.

Really? o_O Emphasis on my reading the: "Dead", part.
I doubt it given how it works. :^ How would it work if you died then?
As in, my I doubt it bits are more 'he has another ability; unsure whether one shot or not but that vote thing is an auto'.
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juicebox

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 2(6/9): Day 3: Off to ply his wares in the afterlife
« Reply #670 on: April 04, 2017, 07:20:02 pm »

Juicebox
TDS's role is only balanced for town and mafia if town has more reliable access to a way to kill him than you (1 shot, timedelay) or BHK (literally as likely to kill himself as his target, absolutely unreliable in any case).
For reference, I don't have a kill.

That's interesting, since your predecessor not only claimed a kill, but threatened to use it on TDS


 a mary sue written by a sub-par children's author.

I take offense to this :P :P :P


Juicebox
Replaced over a phenomenally unhelpful and generally inactive player, has continued to be pretty unhelpful. Asks for reads but doesn't provide them. Has a claimed killing power, but is trying to use it as pressure in a really poor way. Didn't target me last night, even though it would have been the logical choice

You were one of my top choices, if that makes you feel any better. As for my reads, going off N2:

TDS: Highly supicious behavior, hasn't been making very good cases, attempted to lynch Tiruin based on a very weak case. Getting scum vibes off him

Tiruin: Null read

Doll: My gut feeling says scum, but based off of in-game behavior it's a null read

4mask:  Null read mainly because he hasn't posted much.

BHK: Leaning town at the moment. All his actions seem to be geared towards helping town

TDS: If you have an actual case on Tiruin, I'd like to hear it please

My case on Tiruin was essentially that I saw her and webadict colluding and Tiruin was behaving much differently than her meta. However, since the later part of yesterday she's been behaving much more normally. In addition, webadict flipped town.

Hello everyone. My time bomb has been set to explode tomorrow. Who have I set it on? TDS?, 4mask?, Doll? Or is this a bluff? What I will say is that I might disarm it, if I get some good answers from my target.

Why did you take this approach? If I preemptively refuse to answer questions from you until you claim who you set the bomb on, what will you do? Also, I'm worried that "good answers" is really subjective - if you were scum, it would be the perfect excuse to get rid of an annoying town player.

TDS so your Shakeragian power was your only power?
Incidentally, are you claiming to have visited no-one last night?


Why are you rolefishing?

4maskwolf
BHK
Doll
TDS
Juicebox
>> How goes your quicktopic?


Nonexistent - webadict never gave me anything.

Nothing happened to me. I'm also a vanilla townie due to what happened yesterday.
Sure you are.
Can you back it up with something directly understandable, please, because since ever your viewpoint has lacked this sense of directness, and moreso the sense of general ideas. It's nice to note that 'nothing' happened to you. :v

My role was literally one designed to have the only vote whether I'm living or dead. Now I lost that power and I'm a vanilla townie. I did nothing last night and as far as I know nothing happened to me.

Who are you suspicious of now then?

And like I told Tiruin, I chose that approach, because I wanted to use the threat of my time bomb to pressure people. And you refused to answer my questions I would attempt to pressure you in a different manner.

4maskwolf
BHK
Doll
TDS
Juicebox
>> How goes your quicktopic?


I don't have a quicktopic either, nor did I get anything from webadict.
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TheDarkStar

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 2(6/9): Day 3: Off to ply his wares in the afterlife
« Reply #671 on: April 04, 2017, 07:54:39 pm »

My role was literally one designed to have the only vote whether I'm living or dead. Now I lost that power and I'm a vanilla townie. I did nothing last night and as far as I know nothing happened to me.

Really? o_O Emphasis on my reading the: "Dead", part.
I doubt it given how it works. :^ How would it work if you died then?
As in, my I doubt it bits are more 'he has another ability; unsure whether one shot or not but that vote thing is an auto'.

After I died, I would have gotten to vote anyway (but I couldn't say anything otherwise).
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it happened it happened it happen im so hyped to actually get attacked now

doll

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 2(6/9): Day 3: Off to ply his wares in the afterlife
« Reply #672 on: April 05, 2017, 01:23:20 am »

I realized earlier but didn't get the chance to note down that Cinder could also have killed TDS (using TDS's vote), which makes TDS far less indestructible (and thus far less 'meta-towny') than I first thought.
We're not going to lynch him though.


TDS: If you have an actual case on Tiruin, I'd like to hear it please

My case on Tiruin was essentially that I saw her and webadict colluding and Tiruin was behaving much differently than her meta. However, since the later part of yesterday she's been behaving much more normally. In addition, webadict flipped town.
This was never a case. Acting outside of one's meta has never been scummy; what's scummy is acting inside of one's scum meta.
Webadict was the towniest town that ever towned and my predecessor made better decisions than I did,  but even I've been colluding with Webadict since I joined. Because he was town.
Also, there's nothing wrong with collusion. You've outlined a series of 'facts', most of which aren't true, then in some cases claimed that they are scummy and in others merely left them to sit, and in no case have to given an actual reason to have thought she was scum; instead, you've tried your best to write an excuse for exclusively going after the towniest players you could find during Day 2.

Hello everyone. My time bomb has been set to explode tomorrow. Who have I set it on? TDS?, 4mask?, Doll? Or is this a bluff? What I will say is that I might disarm it, if I get some good answers from my target.

Why did you take this approach? If I preemptively refuse to answer questions from you until you claim who you set the bomb on, what will you do? Also, I'm worried that "good answers" is really subjective - if you were scum, it would be the perfect excuse to get rid of an annoying town player.
See, while you're correct that his approach is awful, your plan to deliberately avoid giving out answers to questions isn't really one which helps the town, and the later part of this post is purely an excuse to try and dissuade him from killing you out of fear of being lynched if you flip town.
Incidentally, if you somehow weren't able to glean from my earlier post that the bomb is on you, I'll tell you now that the bomb is on you.
TDS so your Shakeragian power was your only power?
Incidentally, are you claiming to have visited no-one last night?


Why are you rolefishing?
Asking you to clarify your fullclaim is not rolefishing. Here you are, throwing doubt on a player for no reason at all.

I am also rolefishing. I am not fishing for the role of the player who fullclaimed (yet who is cagey about my fishing out his role?) but I am fishing for information about other players because that is how you find scum. In my case, that extends to the actions and activity of other players, because I am an information role and have access to information that other players do not.

Nothing happened to me. I'm also a vanilla townie due to what happened yesterday.
Sure you are.
Can you back it up with something directly understandable, please, because since ever your viewpoint has lacked this sense of directness, and moreso the sense of general ideas. It's nice to note that 'nothing' happened to you. :v

My role was literally one designed to have the only vote whether I'm living or dead. Now I lost that power and I'm a vanilla townie. I did nothing last night and as far as I know nothing happened to me.
I find it interesting how you've now claimed to retain the vote after you died. See, that's the sort of power which scum just couldn't have if they were on a team, since it would make their teammate unlynchable as well, and that seems unlikely. But when have we seen this claim? Why, only after it's become obvious to all that your life is in danger, as both the scummiest player here and the one with the bomb on them.

TBF going IN today is actually bad for us if scum don't have a lylo breaker, since it means we still lose if he rolls scum and either the vote or the kill hits, while at present we aren't out yet if one of two of our kills (vote + Juicebox) hit scum (presumably, one out of TDS, 4mask, Juicebox or myself). Normally I wouldn't bet against scum having a lylo breaker in a setup of this powerlevel, but if TDS is scum they probably don't have a lylo breaker.

Still waiting for 4maskwolf to talk, so it seems pointless to apply more pressure to him before he's had a chance to say something.



I'm going to be very busy over the next 104 hours. I might play a very minimal amount over that time.
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doll

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 2(6/9): Day 3: Off to ply his wares in the afterlife
« Reply #673 on: April 05, 2017, 01:25:06 am »

Tiruin
Sure, I'll join you at night. I might be immune to it though.
Also, I'm fairly certain that most people (myself in any case) thought that you were talking about something to do with Webadict's quicktopics when you posted that.
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4maskwolf

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Re: Fallacy's BYOR 2(6/9): Day 3: Off to ply his wares in the afterlife
« Reply #674 on: April 05, 2017, 04:02:05 pm »

You're right, it is pointless to apply pressure to me, I talk when I want to talk.  Speaking of talking, it's time to talk.

doll: Your case on me is lazy and speaks to your inattention to the thread.  Cinder claimed the roleblock in the thread:
Okay, Cinder, then who did you inspect last Night?
TBF. This has the effect of roleblocking him.
Yes, I'm vague about my role, that's a safety feature.  I'm still wary of roles that utilize the rolenames or ability names of others to perform effects like Cheeetar in the five SK BYOR.  Additionally, I like to be very thorough in what I say: I said "going back on my earlier claim" because if I didn't some clown would decide to say "lol 4mask lier implied only one ability", which yes, I did imply one ability, specifically because I was trying to keep the other a secret for what should be obvious reasons.

Now, on to your next accusation: no, I did not try to redirect the kill.  My exact words were:
For want of other targets, I'd suggest 4maskwolf.
Don't do this, I have a kill-specific revive so it'd be a waste of everyone's time.  If you think I'm scum you're better off lynching me.

juicebox: Welcome.
I then, when questioned by webadict, explained why it would be a waste of time, an explanation that, yes, did include the words "the vigilante could target someone else".  And of course I don't want the kill targeted at me, who does?  This isn't Paranormal 25, we haven't broken the setup, there's no reason for me to lie down and take a kill to the face since it wouldn't actually benefit the town.  But there's nothing I can do to stop juicebox other than ask him not to and explain why it would be a bad idea: he still got to make up his own mind.

Meanwhile, let's take a look at you, your cases, and your actions.  You attempt to direct a vigilante kill with only a few hours left in the day, leaving limited time left to discuss if it's the proper course of action.  You pursue a lazy case on a non-cleared player without actually bringing forth significant evidence and that displays severe gaps in your knowledge of the game and interest in confirming information.  If we're talking about people who have taken strange enough actions to vote for, I might as well throw this one out here: doll.

Yes, I do have an action I'd like to share with the class, or rather, the lack of an action: I was roleblocked last night.  So we have a second roleblocker in the game.

juicebox: Fix your quotes in the future.  Seriously, I lost track of the conversation between you and doll and everyone because your quotes are so fucked.  Okay, now moving on from my irritation: my reads list:

BHK: generally strong town game, I know he didn't perform the mafiakill n1 which, with an ability as unreliable as his, is a pretty good indication that he's probably not scum.

doll: See above, plus a whole bunch of other thoughts I have to look back over but that don't paint him in a good light from my perspective.

Tiruin: By herself, a tad townie, but here's the thing: my issues with doll cast a negative light over her too.  I'll get to this later once I've had a chance to collect my thoughts more, I'm trying to bash out this post as quickly as possible.

juicebox: Ah, the great unknown.  Need more cowbell information.

TDS: I'll be honest: even without the meta-clearing and even with his strange behavior, I'd still put him as top town.  His erratic actions, while highly anti-town, were also so bold and blatant that, honestly, I don't think he would do that as scum.  Because for a while there the only thing that kept him alive was the fact that his power seemed so townie to everyone they wouldn't kill/lynch him, his use of his abilities pissed off a lot of people.  From my experience, TDS is an intelligent enough player not to do something so stupid as scum but too risk-averse and not canny enough to try and subvert expectations like that as scum.  Town.
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