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[lordcooper]

So, Sunless skies.  If you've played Sunless Sea you should have a good idea what to expect: beautifully eerie (and eerily beautiful) prose, a gorgeous and unsettling world to explore, the chance to eat your crew murder a sun.

Information has been somewhat sparse so far, although there are a few very promising sounding blog posts over here: https://www.failbettergames.com/category/sunless-skies/.  Choice pieces include a map based around multiple hubs (no more achingly long and repetitive treks back to London!), the inclusion of black holes (not to mention the cults gathered to worship at them and the unknowable terrors imprisoned within) and SPACE TRAINS.

We've got a short mood setter/trailer here and a Kickstarter should be being launched later today.

It's probably worth mentioning that Failbetter went through Kickstarter and Early Access with Sunless Sea.  By most accounts they Did It Right with frequent updates (pre and post launch) and took feedback seriously, to the point where the entire combat system was torn out and remade quite far into development.  They also released a Proper Old Fashioned Expansion that added loads to the game, which was priced fairly and offered free to all backers and Early Access players.

Basically, they make great games and genuinely value their customers, which is a sadly too rare combination these days.  I can't wait to see a bit more of what they're making here and will almost certainly be throwing a bucket of cash their way.

All shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well.

[nenjin]

For some reason I'm not thrilled by the setting. I played FL and SS but making the full jump to steampunk in space....I dunno. Failbetter's brand of storytelling is good but trying to explain how you end up with Victorian space ships sounds like a bunch of hooey to justify the setting.

As for how they handled EA, they "Did It Right." But it took most of EA before SS wasn't bogged down by a crappy combat system and a flawed resource economy. Which was the whole meat of the game. If I hadn't touched SS until it released I'd have few complaints....but I put 80 hours into SS in EA and was thoroughly burnt out by the time it was released. Failbetter games are best played once.

[lordcooper]

If you follow certain paths into the 'endgame' of Fallen London or Sunless Sea and start uncovering some of the deeper secrets (The Judgements, the Stone Pigs, the nature of the Bazaar and its Masters, Mr Eaten, the Liberation of Night, the Dawn Machine, Salt, the Traitor Empress etc etc) then the High Wilderness seems like the next logical step to be honest.  To risk skirting spoiler territory, many events and the reasoning for things being a certain way is due to the acts of celestial/cosmic beings.  It seems only natural that the story would eventually feature them more heavily.

The following spoilers don't cover everything about their subject, but would be considered major spoilers.  Maybe don't read them.

Spoiler: About the Judgements and the Dawn Machine (click to show/hide)

The Judgements are the stars.  They're also the closest thing to gods and they define the Laws of nature/physics/the universe.  Things are weird in the Neath mainly because their light can't reach down there.  For example the Judgements will that humans eventually die, which is why sunlight becomes hazardous to those who have spent long enough in the Neath that they should have died.  The Dawn Machine was the Admiralties' attempt at creating an artificial Judgement, arguably successfully, although it's weak in Sunless Sea and hates, well, everything.  I could definitely see either the Dawn Machine or their next attempt giving them the ability to reach the High Wilderness.

Spoiler: About the Bazaar (click to show/hide)

The Bazaar is some kind of cosmic being, a messenger/envoy of the Judgements.  It fell in love with our sun and was forced to hide in the Neath to escape the Judgements wrath.  While there it seeks to collect seven cities worth of love stories in a probably futile attempt to persuade them.

It's also worth pointing out (if only for those only slightly familiar with the lore) that the High Wilderness is space in the same way that the Neath is an underground sea.  It''s technically true, but it's missing the point of the thing

As for how they handled EA, they "Did It Right." But it took most of EA before SS wasn't bogged down by a crappy combat system and a flawed resource economy. Which was the whole meat of the game. If I hadn't touched SS until it released I'd have few complaints....but I put 80 hours into SS in EA and was thoroughly burnt out by the time it was released. Failbetter games are best played once.

I've played through SS twice now and will likely do so at least once more, I'm a sucker for following different paths through stories.  If you're not comfortable playing a flawed game (or waiting until it isn't flawed) then Early Access is probably a bad idea for you in general IMO.  Nobody made you put 80 hours into a WIP game you weren't enjoying.  "It was crap and got better" is about the highest praise I could give to an EA game, it shows they were smart enough to take on feedback and rework fundamental systems to improve their game.  As much as it's nice on the rare occasion a game crops up on EA in brilliant shape and almost finished, I can't help but wonder why they didn't just go straight to full release.

[nenjin]

If you follow certain paths into the 'endgame' of Fallen London or Sunless Sea and start uncovering some of the deeper secrets (The Judgements, the Stone Pigs, the nature of the Bazaar and its Masters, Mr Eaten, the Liberation of Night, the Dawn Machine, Salt, the Traitor Empress etc etc) then the High Wilderness seems like the next logical step to be honest.  To risk skirting spoiler territory, many events and the reasoning for things being a certain way is due to the acts of celestial/cosmic beings.  It seems only natural that the story would eventually feature them more heavily.

The following spoilers don't cover everything about their subject, but would be considered major spoilers.  Maybe don't read them.

Spoiler: About the Judgements and the Dawn Machine (click to show/hide)

The Judgements are the stars.  They're also the closest thing to gods and they define the Laws of nature/physics/the universe.  Things are weird in the Neath mainly because their light can't reach down there.  For example the Judgements will that humans eventually die, which is why sunlight becomes hazardous to those who have spent long enough in the Neath that they should have died.  The Dawn Machine was the Admiralties' attempt at creating an artificial Judgement, arguably successfully, although it's weak in Sunless Sea and hates, well, everything.  I could definitely see either the Dawn Machine or their next attempt giving them the ability to reach the High Wilderness.

Spoiler: About the Bazaar (click to show/hide)

The Bazaar is some kind of cosmic being, a messenger/envoy of the Judgements.  It fell in love with our sun and was forced to hide in the Neath to escape the Judgements wrath.  While there it seeks to collect seven cities worth of love stories in a probably futile attempt to persuade them.

It's also worth pointing out (if only for those only slightly familiar with the lore) that the High Wilderness is space in the same way that the Neath is an underground sea.  It''s technically true, but it's missing the point of the thing

As for how they handled EA, they "Did It Right." But it took most of EA before SS wasn't bogged down by a crappy combat system and a flawed resource economy. Which was the whole meat of the game. If I hadn't touched SS until it released I'd have few complaints....but I put 80 hours into SS in EA and was thoroughly burnt out by the time it was released. Failbetter games are best played once.

I've played through SS twice now and will likely do so at least once more, I'm a sucker for following different paths through stories.  If you're not comfortable playing a flawed game (or waiting until it isn't flawed) then Early Access is probably a bad idea for you in general IMO.  Nobody made you put 80 hours into a WIP game you weren't enjoying.  "It was crap and got better" is about the highest praise I could give to an EA game, it shows they were smart enough to take on feedback and rework fundamental systems to improve their game.  As much as it's nice on the rare occasion a game crops up on EA in brilliant shape and almost finished, I can't help but wonder why they didn't just go straight to full release.

I play _plenty_ of EA games. The difference with FB games is they are all story-based. SS was not an action game despite the combat. It's an easy kind of game to burn out on and/or experience what it has to offer too early. I learned my lesson with FB games, which is probably why I won't back this one on Kickstarter. They make good games but it's the kind of game I'm definitely going to wait on release for, this time.

[lordcooper]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/failbetter/sunless-skies-the-sequel-to-sunless-sea

[woosholay]

Sunless Sea was one of the most disappointing games in the last few years, they have decent writers, but their work was obscured by absolutely dreadful gameplay.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Sunless Sea was one of the most disappointing games in the last few years, they have decent writers, but their work was obscured by absolutely dreadful gameplay.

I wouldn't say dreadful, just underdeveloped. If things had been a little more... fine-tuned, had there been more character to your actions and vessel selection, I get the feeling the game would skyrocket in terms of enjoyability.

[forsaken1111]

Sunless Seas' gameplay bored me to tears, which was a shame because I really enjoyed the setting.

[Sensei]

Failbetter's brand of storytelling is good but trying to explain how you end up with Victorian space ships sounds like a bunch of hooey to justify the setting.

If I know their brand of storytelling, they won't explain, not really. I don't think they really go into detail about how, exactly, an entire city was physically moved, and probably for the better. But you just can observe that it was, and you have to accept it, which is the way it is for everyone else in the setting. The High Wilderness, unlike real outer space, no doubt operates on physics concepts which might have seemed like a good idea to someone in the 19th century but we would now consider to be nonsense.

[nenjin]

It's just....I'm willing to buy steam power, moving ships in an underground ocean. Steam getting you to space, supporting space stations? Pretty much destroys my suspension of disbelief. Then again, Steampunk has never really resonated with me. It was in the background enough of FL and SS I didn't think much of it. But this pretty much cuts right to the core of a believable world for me. FB leans heavily on whimsy to make their worlds work but there's a limit for me.

[forsaken1111]

Steam could propel you through space, no question. I remember seeing a proposal for a steam-based reaction control system powered by a nuclear reactor. Reactor boils water to steam for electrical power and can shoot some of the pressurized steam out of various jets to move the ship. Not efficient but nothing in this setting resembles reality in anything more than passing fancy anyway so why not

[Teneb]

As for getting to the High Wilderness itself, the kickstarter page implies it was achieved by going through the Avid Horizon.

[nenjin]

As for getting to the High Wilderness itself, the kickstarter page implies it was achieved by going through the Avid Horizon.

"A sea more sunless."

[Retropunch]

Sunless Seas' gameplay bored me to tears, which was a shame because I really enjoyed the setting.

Me too. The writing is great and the setting/atmosphere is pretty effectively, but the gameplay itself was flash game standard.

Which is my problem for this sequel. Sunless Sea worked because the setting behind it was so strong (in terms of it was just 'classic steampunk') that any faults in the gameplay could sort of fall back on the strength of the setting - this setting doesn't feel as strongly anchored, and all novelty value has run out.

Unless they massively overhaul the gameplay, I think it'll just be immediately tedious.

[Aklyon]

I'll probably give it a shot anyways though. Its quite the theme.