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[Neonivek]

Repeatedly stating that something is true doesn't make it true, and trying to insist that the Neath is R'lyeh makes it seem like you lack more than a cursory familiarity with either setting.  They both feature water pretty heavily, contain very different forms of 'cosmic' entity, and have a certain wonkiness of reality.  That's about all the settings have in common.

Well the only difference between the Ryleh and the Undersea is specifically...

The Entrance to Ryleh is in the USA... and the entrance to the Undersea is around Europe.
-Edit: Actually that isn't true... there is a entrance to Ryleh around... Europe... so... huh... Sorry it was a last second detail in a book... Mostly to set up a "But the problem still exists"

A lot of the details are shockingly similar with the differences mostly stemming from the fact that people are actively exploring the Undersea as opposed to the Lovecraft tale where it is mostly secret. Which explains most of the differences (with most of the creatures being displaced). For example how people age in the undersea, is very similar to how it occurs in Ryleh. (it comes off as almost an alternate history)

As well "Cosmic Entity, Cosmic Entity, Cosmic Entity" is honestly the LAST thing I use to compare something. It is storytelling that is the most important. I mean Conan the Barbarian takes place in a Lovecraft universe with lovecraftian entities existing in it... But the story isn't lovecraftian.

For example "Alone in the Dark" is lovecraftian and no real Cosmic Entity is involved... though their presence is felt.

I also tend not to go entirely towards creatures as well, at least in design. Tentacles is often the lazy way to make a lovecraftian story (Hey people! Lovecraft had stories that didn't have ANY sea creatures...)

That's about all the settings have in common.

Well there is how investigation is done (a common trope that the more investigative lovecraft games use), The slow subtle corruption, the peddling of secrets, the "I've seen too much" that sometimes pops in, the tangible phobia. Heck... "Secrets" is a currency, a basic trope of lovecraft games.

Yada yada.

The overall set up, atmosphere, and how things are done... Are very lovecraftian.

Mind you a reason for this is because Londonesk writing (I don't have a good word for this... Think a Dark Sherlock Title mixed with Pride and Prejudice) and Lovecraftian writing share a lot in common. To the extent that I've often mentally projected England onto some of Lovecraft's work.

Other than Ryleh, which honestly if it is a coincidence it is an IMPRESSIVE coincidence... and yeah the creator might not have been intending to go with Lovecraft... But when you have the formula down, it doesn't matter.

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Or rather... "Lovecraftian" isn't whether or not a piece of work manages to have their version of Cthulhu or squid monsters.

[nenjin]

There is still an abyss worth of difference between "it's Lovecraftian" and "IT'S IN R'LYEH!"

[Neonivek]

There is a abyss worth of difference between "it's Lovecraftian" and "IT'S IN R'LYEH!"

Yeah 100%.

I do think though that Sunless Seas (Don't know about Fallen London... to me it is probably more "Londonesk") does capture a lovecraftian feel. It definitely qualifies as lovecraftian and I feel like the "It isn't" is based more on prejudice towards what lovecraftian is... than anything else.

I also think Sunless Seas takes place in Ryleh... the similarities are just so immense I think it is either a nod or inspiration. At least that is my head canon.

As I've said Conan the Barbarian takes place in the Lovecraft universe... but isn't Lovecraftian.

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The reason I have so little to say to the point... is because... You guys have played the game, you know what is in it. So when you say "It isn't lovecraftian" what does that mean?

Do you mean there are no specific creatures in the game? That there is no universe of uncaring deities?

[nenjin]

Have you actually played Sunless Sea? Because if you have, 90% of the settings should instantly dispel that bit of head canon.

[Neonivek]

Have you actually played Sunless Sea? Because if you have, 90% of the settings should instantly dispel that bit of head canon.

I have... But I usually chalked it up to how an entirely different history occurred as well as being an entirely different area of the ocean/Undersea/Ryleh.

I should state that I am using SPECIFICALLY Ryleh the section of ocean under the ocean. Not Ryleh the palace of Cthulhu. (Since I am not sure the books ever really differentiated between the two)

[nenjin]

I should state that I am using SPECIFICALLY Ryleh the section of ocean under the ocean. Not Ryleh the palace of Cthulhu. (Since I am not sure the books ever really differentiated between the two)

[Neonivek]

Lovecraft books are weird.

For example I believe you can get to the Plateau of Leng in Antarctica (which is another star altogether)... and from there you can waltz into the Dreamlands... and in the Dream Lands you can talk to what is essentially King Triton.

And King Triton hunts Dark Young... Which are creatures that pretend to be trees... but then eat you.

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And then there are the group of super humans... Who are underground for some reason... dang it I forgot the details.

[forsaken1111]

But really, aside from being dark horror and being on/under an ocean what exactly is similar? The points of entry? The 'feel'? I'm not convinced. Aside from both dealing with mysterious unexplained forces, I've seen no overt or covert signs that anything beyond general inspiration was taken from lovecraft's tales.

[Neonivek]

But really, aside from being dark horror and being on/under an ocean what exactly is similar? The points of entry? The 'feel'? I'm not convinced. Aside from both dealing with mysterious unexplained forces, I've seen no overt or covert signs that anything beyond general inspiration was taken from lovecraft's tales.

I think this is based more on what we consider to be enough to be Lovecraftian (as well as what elements we consider to be part of it).

I actually find the whole "Mysterious unexplained forces" and "Cosmic Being" to be the least concern... Yet is oddly what people focus on the most.

[forsaken1111]

So it's just your headcanon and unsupported by any specific thing in the game.

[Neonivek]

So it's just your headcanon and unsupported by any specific thing in the game.

I should point you towards a quote here

There is still an abyss worth of difference between "it's Lovecraftian" and "IT'S IN R'LYEH!"

Is there an overall sense of dread and encroaching terror just by exploring the seas? Yes... it is a basic mechanic of the game

Is there a focus on secrets and knowledge along with the peddling of such? Yes... it is a basic mechanic of the game.

Are you a small creature in what is a vast and uncaring world? Yes... that sticks mostly. Though it isn't a requirement.

Insanity? Yes... Fear? Yes...

It doesn't matter if you believe me when I say that the Undersea is Ryleh (I mean... a ocean under the ocean populated by creatures where people do not age where you are slowly accosted by a primal fear that overtakes you? NOPE! nothing alike...)

I am trying DESPERATLY not to give spoilers here. But you have played the game... I honestly do not know what "you" mean by Lovecraftian, which is why I have no idea what your objections are. Everytime I get details it is always a specific detail that doesn't matter... Like the fact that Starspawn aren't in the game... or that Cthulhu himself isn't in the game...

[forsaken1111]

Yes, anything with darkness, terror, and secrets must be lovecraftian. It's a good theory but it's unsupported by anything in the game beyond your general feeling of the theme. It even sounds like they went out of their way NOT to be lovecraftian.

[Neonivek]

Yes, anything with darkness, terror, and secrets must be lovecraftian. It's a good theory but it's unsupported by anything in the game beyond your general feeling of the theme.

I am not picking up artificial details.

Terror is a mechanic in the game that occurs from being in the ocean. (well one of the ways you can gain it). I can expand on this, but... once again you played the game, you have a good idea of how it works.

As well the way secrets are obtained, used, and stored (as is a mechanic in the game) is a common trope of the Lovecraft investigative games. In has a clear line of inspiration from similar games and titles.

I am not sure what your argument even is here. I am offering a lot up here. Or at least some.

It even sounds like they went out of their way NOT to be lovecraftian.

They say their game is fairly lovecraftian anyway except for two details
1) Monster designs which they say are coincidence
and
2) "Light hearted"

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I can only keep offering details... If you want me to write an essay on everything in Sunless Sea that is Lovecraftian... Which you seem to REALLY want me to do... Then at least state that.

Seriously what is your argument or viewpoint here? As I said, the only details I can get from you is "Doesn't have this specific thing from a Lovecraft book" rather then anything substantive because the exact objects do not make something lovecraftian. This is really one sided here.

I have no idea if we have different ideas on what makes something Lovecraftian... if one of us has harsher ideas on it... If we have different views on Sunless Sea... If we have had different experiences.

I don't even feel like I am arguing with someone... Because I have no idea what your viewpoint actually is beyond "Does not agree"

[forsaken1111]

That's basically it, I don't agree. I don't think your argument is as strong as you clearly think it is. You've already said you don't care if I believe you and I'm not trying to convince you that you're wrong. I just disagree. Nothing about this game struck me as particularly lovecraftian, and it certainly doesn't feel like its set in Ryleh. It is mysterious, dark, and dull of terror but there is also a lot of humor tossed in there with some absurdity as well. If anything it feels like a darker version of something Monty Python would put out.

[Neonivek]

That's basically it, I don't agree. I don't think your argument is as strong as you clearly think it is. You've already said you don't care if I believe you and I'm not trying to convince you that you're wrong. I just disagree. Nothing about this game struck me as particularly lovecraftian, and it certainly doesn't feel like its set in Ryleh. It is mysterious, dark, and dull of terror but there is also a lot of humor tossed in there with some absurdity as well. If anything it feels like a darker version of something Monty Python would put out.

Well I guess if your answer is "Just plain no" then fine.

I already said my bit. Now for the parade of people who will jump out my throat... do exactly what I said "doesn't exclude lovecraft" and stuff.

it certainly doesn't feel like its set in Ryleh

I don't know what you expect is in Ryleh.

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PFT! Apparently South is "Pulp Fiction Jungle" land