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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4449272 times)

eerr

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #54105 on: November 20, 2024, 12:47:10 pm »

Regarding the nominations: as I see it there's four goals here:
1: Reward sycophants with power
2: Have extreme leverage on all subordinates
3: Destroy institutions as per stated policy goals
4: Manifest authority; act above law in all things in order to BE above the law in all things.

This last is why he appointed a pedophile to the DOJ. People must _know_ that he's a sex offender, and that the system protects him. To the right, law is a command from above, meaning that the origin of law, the highest authority, is lawless.

The Congress will step aside and grant Trump all his nominations. There's is no alternative. Interference with Trump's agenda will result in political self-destruction. It's been Trump's party since 2016.
does that mean trump has leverage on elon musk?
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Folly

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #54106 on: November 20, 2024, 05:09:38 pm »

I dunno whether it’s a stereotype or rumor, a wide-spread theory I heard is that those who vote for Trump are mostly the ones who are less educated while the opposite are advanced intellectuals. Every bay watcher here, except those ad robots, are all deep fans of DF. Since DF is a hard game , and only those who are more educated could enjoy the essence behind those ascii words and difficult nouns.That might be the reason why bay watchers are mostly Trump’s dissidents.

You are definitely giving DF fans too much credit.

MAGA propaganda is heavily rooted in lies which are easily disproven. Because of this, Trump's ideology is only able to thrive within an echo chamber, where everyone supports the lies and nobody speaks out against them. Trump used intimidation to create substantial areas within this country where people are afraid to speak out against him, thus allowing the MAGA to fester and grow unopposed.

You will never find MAGA supporters hanging around areas with free and open debates. They either immediately dominate an area by forcing out all dissenting views, or they declare that area a bastion of the Woke Liberal Fake News Media and avoid it at all costs.
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Grim Portent

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #54107 on: November 20, 2024, 05:14:30 pm »

They also tend to subscribe to one or another form of bigotry that is banned on this forum, and while able to hide such things when not confronted, it inevitably comes out in long form discussion.
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wobbly

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #54108 on: November 20, 2024, 05:35:53 pm »

Maybe it’s because he was survived from the assassins within the aid from the god…I am not religious and I don’t buy it, but most Americans are Christian and they will see Trump as a new messiah.

I am not religious, and also don't buy it. I am related to religious people, who also, don't buy it. The only people who buys this, are people who deliberately wish to buy it. And these people definetely do exist.
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Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #54109 on: November 20, 2024, 06:06:45 pm »

does that mean trump has leverage on elon musk?
It may be that he thinks he does, or that there is enough reason to believe so. Musk could probably do with a lessening of pressures from the likes of the EPA, and what better position to be put into than where he might be, with a little bit give-and-take mutual support.

I don't know who is playing who more, but (as with other appointees) there are probably various reasons why the patron-client relationship might exist. Especially for those that already openly proclaimed their choice of sugardaddy. (In the equation of support, you might not expect to be penalised so much for being aligned against the Democrats, if they won, as if you had been aligned against the Republicans, with them winning. Especially if you happen to have a whole social media network of data at hand to get an idea of the lie of the land, possibly even to nudge back.)


As to why we don't have a clear MAGA membership here [note: not in reply to any of the last three messages, they popped up whilst I was editing - any direct agreement of opposition to them is pure coincidence]... Well, we're perhaps a bit more international, and not so large a userbase as can tolerate a vocal sub-population. There's one or two 'locals' that I'd say have been more that way inclined than others, as there are those who comparatively swing over the other way. But people who go so far as to cross the lines in being impolite (in whatever way) tend to get actions, warnings and (eventually) banhammers deployed against them. Strong opinions, yes; outright full-on meming, not that I've noticed. Compared to the degrees that I've seen elsewhere.

The bias of education (we few, we happy few) I would also put down to us being a very small community. It takes effort, and perhaps a bit of luck, to get here. And these days, those who come across DF through Discord or Steam forums might stay there rather than coming to an 'old style[1]' BBS like this.

We still get all sorts here. And we're not so much even a 'liberal' echo-chamber (some lone echoes here are, of course, free to think and say otherwise... which puts the whole situation in an amusing logical bind). Possibly there's a bias towards Tarn's own opinions, but there's still plenty of rattle-room. But an intolerance/discouragement of performative extremism.



[1] I feel personally obliged to point out that this "© 2016" web interface is more than three decades, and at least four major "online revolutions" newer than the kind of BBS that I used to use, and even that kind was an improvement on the really "old style" ones that preceded. But it's closer to the original Web2.0 than whatever we might term today's online ecosystem.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #54110 on: November 20, 2024, 08:27:08 pm »

So it might be weird to me that, as Trump win the popular vote, why it’s rare to see a MAGA guy here on the bay 12 forum?

All-up MAGA is only a portion of the people who voted for Trump. A far larger number are people who were dissatisfied with the economy and bought into Trump's easy answers and/or blamed Biden because he's the one who was in power for most of it. Meanwhile Trump's first term inherited a good economy from Obama, so people associate him with good times. COVID complicates this because it not only makes the 2017-2019 period take on a really strong rosy glow of never-was, but the really bad economic fallout from it didn't start hitting until 2021. During Trump's final year, a majority of people were not working and collecting bonus unemployment benefits that gave them plenty of available cash, were working remotely and thus nearly unaffected, or still working their normal jobs with a lot more hours and thus had more money. This was an unsustainable bubble, and it burst the next year. The fact that we have the largest shooting war in Europe since 1945 and all the economic disruptions from that made things worse.

Note that every single election in 2024 (and the world had a lot of them this year) went against the party in power because the economic shocks from COVID and the Ukraine War are still reverberating around the world. The US is hurt less than pretty much anybody else, but we're also a bunch of insulated spoiled babies about stuff like this.
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Eric Blank

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #54111 on: November 20, 2024, 08:29:58 pm »

So it might be weird to me that, as Trump win the popular vote, why it’s rare to see a MAGA guy here on the bay 12 forum?
This is basically it;
They also tend to subscribe to one or another form of bigotry that is banned on this forum, and while able to hide such things when not confronted, it inevitably comes out in long form discussion.

One bad argument, the slurs start flying and they get themselves banned. In the American right, those things are acceptable, even in public in many places. Even though people that believe in them, we think, or thought, or still hope, are/were a minority. We've made some progress in that it's not acceptable everywhere, such as here. But either way, people who believe those things can only suppress them for so long before they come out because they got so mad they forgot to suppress them.
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The_Explorer

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #54112 on: November 20, 2024, 10:23:22 pm »

So it might be weird to me that, as Trump win the popular vote, why it’s rare to see a MAGA guy here on the bay 12 forum?

All-up MAGA is only a portion of the people who voted for Trump. A far larger number are people who were dissatisfied with the economy and bought into Trump's easy answers and/or blamed Biden because he's the one who was in power for most of it. Meanwhile Trump's first term inherited a good economy from Obama, so people associate him with good times. COVID complicates this because it not only makes the 2017-2019 period take on a really strong rosy glow of never-was, but the really bad economic fallout from it didn't start hitting until 2021. During Trump's final year, a majority of people were not working and collecting bonus unemployment benefits that gave them plenty of available cash, were working remotely and thus nearly unaffected, or still working their normal jobs with a lot more hours and thus had more money. This was an unsustainable bubble, and it burst the next year. The fact that we have the largest shooting war in Europe since 1945 and all the economic disruptions from that made things worse.

Note that every single election in 2024 (and the world had a lot of them this year) went against the party in power because the economic shocks from COVID and the Ukraine War are still reverberating around the world. The US is hurt less than pretty much anybody else, but we're also a bunch of insulated spoiled babies about stuff like this.

To add. There is also a not talked about at all (but it was pre-election) protest vote who voted neither trump or kamala because of the Israel stuff. Thats why Trump got roughly same amount of votes as last time, and there was a lot less democrat votes.

(edit: I think I quoted the wrong post. Sorry about that. Not even sure who I originally meant to respond to, halfway asleep...)
« Last Edit: November 20, 2024, 10:27:18 pm by The_Explorer »
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Sirus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #54113 on: November 20, 2024, 10:43:33 pm »

Well I hope those dipshits are happy with themselves now. Protest votes don't really work in the current system, and while that is certainly an issue with the system in question and really needs to be corrected, all it did was allow the people least interested in helping Palestine take almost total control of the government.

Great work, y'all, way to self-sabotage. Fucking dumbasses.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #54114 on: November 20, 2024, 10:50:08 pm »


To add. There is also a not talked about at all (but it was pre-election) protest vote who voted neither trump or kamala because of the Israel stuff. Thats why Trump got roughly same amount of votes as last time, and there was a lot less democrat votes.


I'm not sure if they're done counting yet, but Trump now has two million more votes than he did last time, not the same amount. Harris also has about as many votes than Trump got last time. Once you factor in the two million voters that apparently switched to Trump, there's about a five million voter "gap" between Biden 2020 and Harris 2024.

The anti-Israel bloc claims credit for this, but evidence for that is scanty. It hasn't shown up at all in exit polling.
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Folly

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #54115 on: November 20, 2024, 10:58:45 pm »

Well I hope those dipshits are happy with themselves now. Protest votes don't really work in the current system, and while that is certainly an issue with the system in question and really needs to be corrected, all it did was allow the people least interested in helping Palestine take almost total control of the government.
Great work, y'all, way to self-sabotage. Fucking dumbasses.

The protest-voter groups I've heard from use the excuse that their numbers would not have been sufficient to sway any of the results. This is also why they are not talked about much.
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Robot Parade Leader

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #54116 on: November 20, 2024, 11:02:06 pm »

I don't get what people who "protest voted" "against Biden" by not voting thought they could get from doing that.

Trump is going to stack the supreme court even more and he's telling republicans in congress what to do. 
Medicare and Medicaid funding is getting cut and basically everything is getting cut.
He ran on mass deportations and he's gonna figure out a way to do them. Weird how news stories say people think they won't go.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c79zxjj0j55o
"Undocumented migrants hope Trump mass deportations only 'for criminals'"
WTF? Trump won't care and he's gonna toss out whoever he can shove out.

I'm really surprised about the whole Gaza protest vote thing. Trump used Palestinian as an insult, and doesn't care.

Trump more or less feels he can do whatever the hell he wants without anyone stopping him. So far nobody really has/will.

Trump doesn't care because he's not directly re electable after 2 terms. He can order the republicans around even after that though.

He's gonna do what he said and the people who think he won't are gonna sit there wondering while he does it.  I dunno.
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Sirus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #54117 on: November 20, 2024, 11:04:26 pm »

Well I hope those dipshits are happy with themselves now. Protest votes don't really work in the current system, and while that is certainly an issue with the system in question and really needs to be corrected, all it did was allow the people least interested in helping Palestine take almost total control of the government.
Great work, y'all, way to self-sabotage. Fucking dumbasses.

The protest-voter groups I've heard from use the excuse that their numbers would not have been sufficient to sway any of the results. This is also why they are not talked about much.
Yeah, them and every other group that uses every other excuse to not vote. All too small to have any effect. Until, suddenly! There's millions fewer voters and very clearly there is a very dramatic effect.

We've already established that they're a bunch of idiots, so I guess it's no surprise that they don't understand how small groups of small numbers can add up to quite a lot.
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Robot Parade Leader

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #54118 on: November 21, 2024, 12:51:02 am »

Trump really did it didn't he? He basically said it would be revenge in his second term.
If he gets pissed at someone, then he can make their life hell, call it an official act and do whatever.
I don't see anyone able to stop him, but what do I know.

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Folly

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #54119 on: November 21, 2024, 02:06:25 am »

We've already established that they're a bunch of idiots, so I guess it's no surprise that they don't understand how small groups of small numbers can add up to quite a lot.

I don't think it's idiotic to be passionate about their government facilitating the mass-murder of a civilian population.
And the way that US democracy is set up, small groups really don't add up to anything. If their group is not large enough to sway their district, then their votes really do not matter.
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