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[MaxDemone]

What I’m hearing is that pretty much every demographic other than black women Harris underperformed (or Trump overperformed, depending on how you want to look at it) from what was expected. My county had a 70+% turnout rate, pretty sure.

There does seem to be a focus on why Harris lost, rather than why Trump won, though. Personally I’m more interested in why people voted for somebody who you can say was campaigning on fascist lines this time round, was called a fascist by a handful of people who worked with him the first time round, and was generally said to be a disaster by a huge chunk of people who worked with him the first time round, too.

Because a lot of words nowadays have been diluted by improper usage and, as such, people say, "He isn't a fascist! It's just the wacky libs crying!" and then they vote for him. Not to mention people will vote for someone making horrific claims about groups of people as long as its not their group of people.

[Maximum Spin]

What I’m hearing is that pretty much every demographic other than black women Harris underperformed (or Trump overperformed, depending on how you want to look at it) from what was expected. My county had a 70+% turnout rate, pretty sure.

There does seem to be a focus on why Harris lost, rather than why Trump won, though. Personally I’m more interested in why people voted for somebody who you can say was campaigning on fascist lines this time round, was called a fascist by a handful of people who worked with him the first time round, and was generally said to be a disaster by a huge chunk of people who worked with him the first time round, too.

I also think they simply don't trust the opinions of any of those people because they're "swamp creatures".

[wobbly]

RE: Progressive losing men, yes agree, but also losing the working class. Union politics is neither left or right. Most of the working class lean conservative, but vote left (or what counts as left in the USA), but only when they feel they are actually looked after. Instead of dumped by a group in the left that is increasingly dominated by slightly more well of professional class.

Re Trump, someone above claimed Harris ran to much on being not-Trump. My recollection of Biden's campaign was that he mostly shut up, and let Trump be Trump. Half of Trump's success is people having goldfish memories. When Biden ran everyone was sick of Trump. People have forgotten and moved on to being sick of Biden (and Harris by extension). Somewhere along where above I mentioned the Philippines politics being worse. The current prime minister is son of a corrupt politician who fled the country (and was sheltered by the US). Goldfish memories.

[Maximum Spin]

When Biden ran everyone was sick of Trump.

I think this is vastly overstated. In 2020, Trump received more votes than any Presidential candidate before, and a comparable number to 2024. The level of support for Trump certainly didn't drop off and then return.

[wobbly]

When Biden ran everyone was sick of Trump.

I think this is vastly overstated. In 2020, Trump received more votes than any Presidential candidate before, and a comparable number to 2024. The level of support for Trump certainly didn't drop off and then return.

Yes votes for Trump were among the highest in history. However votes against Trump were even higher. It's a simplification, yes. Some people like Biden, and support him. But don't try and con me that that record breaking vote is all Biden support. He is not that charismatic.

[Strongpoint]

Harris could have won handily if she made a few concessions to the left wing. Not all, not most. Even one or two somewhat daring reforms would have probably helped secure otherwise non-voters and might even have swung over a few centrists. But what do you expect from the party whose totem animal is a donkey.

*Bursts in laughter*

To win elections you need to fight for the (moderate) electorate of the other side not do something that they strongly oppose to attract few votes of "against both" radical marginals.

[Maximum Spin]

When Biden ran everyone was sick of Trump.

I think this is vastly overstated. In 2020, Trump received more votes than any Presidential candidate before, and a comparable number to 2024. The level of support for Trump certainly didn't drop off and then return.

Yes votes for Trump were among the highest in history. However votes against Trump were even higher. It's a simplification, yes. Some people like Biden, and support him. But don't try and con me that that record breaking vote is all Biden support. He is not that charismatic.

Well, Trump received roughly the same number of votes but the other side dropped back to 2016-and-before levels. What else do you call that? You can say "the people who were sick of Trump in 2020 weren't sick of him anymore", but you definitely can't say "everyone was sick of Trump". Only a certain subset of voters were.

[wobbly]

When Biden ran everyone was sick of Trump.

I think this is vastly overstated. In 2020, Trump received more votes than any Presidential candidate before, and a comparable number to 2024. The level of support for Trump certainly didn't drop off and then return.

Yes votes for Trump were among the highest in history. However votes against Trump were even higher. It's a simplification, yes. Some people like Biden, and support him. But don't try and con me that that record breaking vote is all Biden support. He is not that charismatic.

Well, Trump received roughly the same number of votes but the other side dropped back to 2016-and-before levels. What else do you call that? You can say "the people who were sick of Trump in 2020 weren't sick of him anymore", but you definitely can't say "everyone was sick of Trump". Only a certain subset of voters were.

You are trying to argue technical points of what I was saying  instead of actually trying to understand the point behind my post.

[Maximum Spin]

You are trying to argue technical points of what I was saying  instead of actually trying to understand the point behind my post.

I disagreed with the one specific phrase that I quoted. I thought that was obvious.

[wobbly]

You are trying to argue technical points of what I was saying  instead of actually trying to understand the point behind my post.

I disagreed with the one specific phrase that I quoted. I thought that was obvious.

Not a lot is  obvious outside of you over respecting your own view point. I understand that, I also do that too often. Everyone does.

Evey one over respects their own view point.
 Reserve a miniscure space for other views in your life.

[Frumple]

Honestly... the election was lost because prices were high and boomers and gen x reflexively kicked out the party in power while too many people sat it out. That's just kinda' it, above and beyond literally anything else. All the messaging in the world was basically irrelevant, prices were high, kick the bums out. You can say things about minority underperformance but the dems still won literally every non-white demographic on the net. They won every age demographic below the 45-60 bracket, and even the 60+. Trump made no fucking inroads in turnout and barely any in demographic outreach, that specific to men and largely offset by losses on the other side of the divide.

People just weren't bloody paying attention to the campaigns, they were paying attention to their grocery bill and not thinking a single goddamn past that. Piles of people didn't even know biden had bloody dropped out until it basically hit election day. The deciding factor here wasn't a single thing either campaign did, it was our voting population being itself.

If the elections haven't gone full russia/hungary in four years and trump doesn't start nuclear war, they're going to boot the GOP out even harder because the prices are going to be even higher

[Random_Dragon]

People seriously need to internalize that corporations are not your friend, are driven solely by profit at any cost, and that they'll take literally any excuse to pay their employees less and charge consumers more.

[Robot Parade Leader]

Jesus, at this point, how do we make something like a guild that's non profit, owns housing and helps people get jobs.
I don't know, because I don't think it's been done that I know of, but something along the lines of:

You pay a set fee every month and that gets you a room in one of the Guild's houses to live in and use of common rooms in any city they exist in.
You either pay another fee for food every month or buy cheap mass cooked meals.
They help you find jobs (So you can pay the fee).

I'm only half joking, because I don't know how. I don't think many of us are going to be able to afford a house and rent is insanely high. Now I'm hearing inflation is going to go higher, which means housing prices are going to go higher. The average house is already over $400,000 in the US. They don't want to give us remote work so we can't live in cheaper places.
Plus if you need to move for work it's a giant pain.

[Maximum Spin]

Jesus, at this point, how do we make something like a guild that's non profit, owns housing and helps people get jobs.
I don't know, because I don't think it's been done that I know of, but something along the lines of:

You pay a set fee every month and that gets you a room in one of the Guild's houses to live in and use of common rooms in any city they exist in.
You either pay another fee for food every month or buy cheap mass cooked meals.
They help you find jobs (So you can pay the fee).

I'm only half joking, because I don't know how. I don't think many of us are going to be able to afford a house and rent is insanely high. Now I'm hearing inflation is going to go higher, which means housing prices are going to go higher. The average house is already over $400,000 in the US. They don't want to give us remote work so we can't live in cheaper places.
Plus if you need to move for work it's a giant pain.

That would be extremely easy to do, actually. It wouldn't be that different, in principle, from a hotel chain. It would take a huge amount of startup capital, though. I recommend you do some networking and try to generate interest in your idea. You'll want to have a thought-out business plan to show people - at a minimum, you'd need to purchase housing, hire managers to operate the housing, as well as legally compliant cooking premises, and employees to do all the maintenance and cooking and everything that needs to be done. You'd also need to build connections with employers to provide training and job placement, and you'd need employees for this as well. It'd be best to start small, in one city, and research the local regulations your operations need to comply with, before trying to expand.

[Robot Parade Leader]

My first thought is that doesn't sound easy. I'm not saying right or wrong, but probably not easy.