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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4156696 times)

None

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52725 on: May 23, 2024, 08:49:59 am »

Democracy works ok when the people are educated. If not, well...
What does being educated have to do with being unselfish?  The problem isn't lack of education... in fact, the most oppressive are generally highly educated relative to the masses.
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relative to the masses.
that's what being educated has to do with it
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McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52726 on: May 23, 2024, 09:17:07 am »

Sorry my point didn't come across, which was "being educated doesn't prevent you from being selfish and voting for and/or supporting selfish policy."

So even if you had a more educated population, you wouldn't eliminate selfish, oppressive behavior. You need something "other than" education to fix that.
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MaxTheFox

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52727 on: May 23, 2024, 11:11:28 am »

Education is not everything but it's far easier for malicious actors to use conspiracy theories and faux-populist rhetoric to manipulate an uneducated population than an educated one.

Yeah some voters will vote for oppression anyways but right now otherwise good-natured people are being swayed into hatred.
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Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless. What will you do on the day of reckoning, when disaster comes from afar?

Lord Shonus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52728 on: May 23, 2024, 02:00:59 pm »

Many of the people most taken in by conspiracy theories and rhetoric are very highly educated - in many cases it makes you more vulnerable, to the point where "STEMlord conspiracy theorist" is a stock character.
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anewaname

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52729 on: May 23, 2024, 02:15:19 pm »

There are two different vectors here... education and intent. Is that highly educated person attempting to educate others or deny them an education? And do they intend to form an abusive or a cooperative relationship?

Some highly educated people seek to deny the education of others to maintain their power and control over them; seeing those other people as their farm animals, to be used and bred, and not to be educated. There is a reason "Animal Farm" was so accurate an analogy. I remember a horse that knew how to flip open gate locks, and the horses would follow him out into a field. It wasn't a problem because they would come back to get the evening's sweetened grain, but what if they were smart enough to get beyond the field and into the wild? And what if this was a farm where the horses delivered a daily product essential to the farm's economic output? I was just a horse handler for a while, but I could just as easily taken the position of being an enforcer, with the role of stopping that horse from that activity, and of denying any other horse the education enabling them to gain freedoms. I could be using coercion to regain control, and talking sweetly to the horses, "come back to your stalls, there is benefit to being enslaved", while I cut the sweetened grain rations for the troublemaker.

Democracy fails when a group of educated people is able to control an uneducated group and maintain that control by denying education and representation. You can look back at the slave holders who wanted to obtain votes based on their enslaved populations, or you can look at the "they want immigrants to gain votes" chatter. It is all the same thing... groups of highly educated people are in direct political competition, attempting to control masses of less-educated people in order to gain political power. There are truths in what either group is saying, but there are also falsehoods. The importance should be on the intents of the individuals within the groups.
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There is something to be said about, if the stakes are as high, maybe reconsider your certitudes. One has to be aggressively allistic to feel entitled to be able to trust. But it won't happen to me, my bit doesn't count etc etc... Just saying, after my recent experiences I couldn't trust the public if I wanted to. People got their risk assessment neurons rotten and replaced with game theory. Folks walk around like fat turkeys taunting the world to slaughter them.

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52730 on: May 23, 2024, 05:27:27 pm »

That ignores the core thing about what I said.
Being highly educated does not in any way, shape, or form prevent you from buying in to the most ludicrous nonsense. I know Ph.D holders who genuinely and truly believe in just about every conspiracy theory you can name.
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52731 on: May 23, 2024, 05:44:12 pm »

Of course it doesn't prevent anything, but on average they're less likely to. And that's what matters.

I'm willing to bet everything that the average redneck from North Banjo, Alabama believes more conspiracy theories and looks at political rhetoric less critically than a degree-holding urban yuppie.
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Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless. What will you do on the day of reckoning, when disaster comes from afar?

anewaname

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52732 on: May 23, 2024, 10:33:36 pm »

@Lord Shonus
I was replying to the earlier posts involving democracy and education; didn't see yours.
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Quote from: dragdeler
There is something to be said about, if the stakes are as high, maybe reconsider your certitudes. One has to be aggressively allistic to feel entitled to be able to trust. But it won't happen to me, my bit doesn't count etc etc... Just saying, after my recent experiences I couldn't trust the public if I wanted to. People got their risk assessment neurons rotten and replaced with game theory. Folks walk around like fat turkeys taunting the world to slaughter them.

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52733 on: May 24, 2024, 04:30:17 am »

I think that (part of) the point made was missed, though. It doesn't matter what the highly educated do or do not believe, so much as that when there is a massive differential in education then "the masses" can be fed whatever "the elite" either deliberately or stupidly espouses.

(Not even equating "the educated" as "the elite", here. The actual risen-to-the-top elite might be anti-intellectual (against others, at least) or just otherwise invested in more of an oppressive Great Leap Backward/Cultural Revolution than an egalitarian ideal of an Enlightenment/bootstrapping. And if few people are left behind by opportunity and education then the risk is far lower that those who weren't so unlucky can be unduly demonised by the populist leader(s) for their own end.)
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52734 on: May 24, 2024, 11:14:18 am »

Democracy works ok when the people are educated. If not, well...
What does being educated have to do with being unselfish?  The problem isn't lack of education... in fact, the most oppressive are generally highly educated relative to the masses.

Are the most highly educated generally the most oppressive as a class, though?
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52735 on: May 28, 2024, 02:26:13 am »

Democracy works ok when the people are educated. If not, well...
What does being educated have to do with being unselfish?  The problem isn't lack of education... in fact, the most oppressive are generally highly educated relative to the masses.

Are the most highly educated generally the most oppressive as a class, though?

Can we invoke historical precent?
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hector13

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52736 on: May 30, 2024, 03:47:58 pm »

A verdict has been reached in Trump’s hush money trial.

Guilty on all 34 counts :o
« Last Edit: May 30, 2024, 04:06:58 pm by hector13 »
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52737 on: May 30, 2024, 04:07:42 pm »

34 Felony Counts, all Guilty.
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nenjin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52738 on: May 30, 2024, 04:23:20 pm »

Bracing for the true believers to react as one would expect.
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hector13

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52739 on: May 30, 2024, 04:26:37 pm »

He said the word rigged many many times during his little speech outside the courthouse before leaving without taking questions.

Someone shouted a question after him. Unfortunately it wasn’t if he was going to get fitted for a jumpsuit.

Also, my local news decided to have breaking coverage of the verdict… interrupting the national news programme covering the verdict.
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Look, we need to raise a psychopath who will murder God, we have no time to be spending on cooking.

the way your fingertips plant meaningless soliloquies makes me think you are the true evil among us.
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