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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4435580 times)

nenjin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52605 on: March 13, 2024, 09:20:54 pm »

I mean, there's plenty of reasons. Trust in the mass media has been falling for years. Pretty sure its at rock bottom these days. (Myself included. I quit reading CNN the day Trump got elected and have since never looked back, except when something massive has just happened.)

And the mainstream media has been attacked from the top as well, by consolidation, budget cuts and sell offs, shallower, cheaper reporting, more inflammatory, partisan, biased reporting. Getting the news via Social Media has the immediacy as well, that isn't 24-hour "cable news cycle" immediacy. But real people reacting, rather than reporting. It's bite-sized and perfectly tailored to our shortened attention spans and heightened reactivity. Bold claims, not enough facts because facts take time and fucks to give to process and test. Time that no one wants to spend, nor pay for. People can find the flavor and bias they prefer as well. There's an infinity of personalities to give you a take across Social Media than there is in traditional mainstream news, and their lack of training, rigor or ethics is seen as a virtue.

I feel fucking old, but I remember when there were like, 3 major nightly news programs across the US. That you had to watch live or you didn't get to see it.

There is such a vast gulf between the way we "think" this shit should work based on the past, and the way it actually works in practice with the average American. A massive disparity between how some generations got information and how that shaped them, versus others who grew up with the rate at which we can communicate now.

I have my bachelors in Journalism, truth be told. And you know what I didn't do after graduation? Become a journalist. As I was coming through my program all I heard from my professors at the end of the day was "you're going to be doing 5 people's jobs as a modern reporter" "You try to balance what matters versus what gets ad dollars, but at the end of the day ad dollars are what matter." "John Q Public generally has contempt for you." "Budgets are tight and newspapers are shutting down everywhere." And those things have all only gotten worse. I could go on but it's pretty goddamn depressing. And it's hard not to feel like it's part of the Master Plan that we see this country headed toward, that I've been watching happen on the media side for the last 20 years. The first thing you need to do in order to take control is to discredit, defund and liquidate the people whose job it is to pay attention to and tell others what you say and do.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2024, 09:28:10 pm by nenjin »
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lemon10

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52606 on: March 14, 2024, 05:48:54 am »

As far as I'm aware, it's just fear-mongering. Just about everything tiktok can get insofar as data is concerned is already sold on the open market by stateside companies;
Well no, that isn't true at all. Google and facebook don't actually sell their data (its theirs, get your own). Sure there is a ton of data sold, but from my understanding its disambiguated in various ways that would make using it on a mass scale more difficult.
Social media like tiktok get an absolute absurd ton of data, including stuff like the political views of a hundred million Americans across all demographics and age groups (based on the fact that it might take you five seconds to swipe an anti-trump video instead of 2), or the ability to track American soldiers/journalists that use tictok based on stored location data, or as others have said, stuff like all the apps and data on your phones.
Now I agree that it probably doesn't really *matter* for the most part that china has all that data, but it certainly isn't nothing.
Can anyone explain to me just what is so bad about TikTok (or any other foreign-owned piece of software) that our illustrious Congress wants to make a law specifically against it?

I mean yes there's this vague "national security" thing - but is there really anything specific or is it really just fear-mongering about "foreign influence"?  I can't imagine that there is really that much opportunity for data exfiltration through TikTok compared to any other website or whatever.
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All is fair in love and info war. Last week, following a classified hearing with officials from the FBI and Justice Department — which we still know nothing about, and which, for some reason, almost nobody has covered — a bi-partisan group of lawmakers resurrected Trump’s attempt at TikTok divestiture, which would force TikTok’s Chinese parent ByteDance to sell the company.
There may very well be something specific there, but if it is its classified.
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Quote
Timothy Lee: A study last year found that topics that aligned with the interests of the Chinese government receive wildly disproportionate attention on TikTok, while topics Beijing considers sensitive tend not to go viral on the platform.
...
After this study was published, ByteDance reduced data transparency.
Quote
Noah Smith: This is very damning evidence indeed. And even if you’re skeptical of circumstantial evidence like this, there are leaked documents that prove the company has done exactly the kind of censoring that the study found:

TikTok, the popular Chinese-owned social network, instructs its moderators to censor videos that mention Tiananmen Square, Tibetan independence, or the banned religious group Falun Gong, according to leaked documents detailing the site’s moderation guidelines.
Social media platforms have immense power for manipulation and propaganda, and we know China is messing with things at least a little. Does it really matter if China has the ability to reach in and alter what 170 million Americans are allowed to see basically in real time?
I think it does matter, and see no reason the Chinese government should be allowed to have that power.
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McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52607 on: March 14, 2024, 06:39:29 am »

Social media platforms have immense power for manipulation and propaganda, and we know China is messing with things at least a little. Does it really matter if China has the ability to reach in and alter what 170 million Americans are allowed to see basically in real time?
I think it does matter, and see no reason the Chinese government should be allowed to have that power.

I think that's the crux of what I mean.  The focus on "the Chinese government" having that power is specious. The real issue is that nobody should have that power.  Who cares if it's the Chinese government or, say, Disney? The problem is the power mongers who want their power and their power only, coupled with a global population that, on more than average, is not capable of filtering information through anything other than "I'll do what keeps me acceptable to a local majority group so I am at an acceptable personal comfort level."

There's no living with integrity, being nice to everyone, especially the oppressed, and not living only for self.
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lemon10

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52608 on: March 14, 2024, 08:37:10 am »

I think that's the crux of what I mean.  The focus on "the Chinese government" having that power is specious. The real issue is that nobody should have that power.  Who cares if it's the Chinese government or, say, Disney?
I agree that we should massively restrict social media, but we *know* that China has been abusing its power here, AFAIK we can't say the same about the other social media companies (aside from the dumpster fire that is twitter due to Elon's ego problems, and AFAIK even that isn't him systemically using the power it grants to shift opinions, its just him being a shit).

So I would in fact say that its very much different.
While yes, in a perfect world nobody would have this power, one less company that is using it to spy on the US for a foreign country (as well as manipulating our views) seems like a net positive.
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Also FYI for people reading the thread that aren't in the know, the bill won't actually ban tiktok, it will just remove it from the appstores unless the company that owns it sells it. Even if they don't sell it you can just open your web browser and watch it there.
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Duuvian

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52609 on: March 16, 2024, 04:53:14 am »

https://citizenlab.ca/2023/07/an-analysis-of-in-platform-censorship-on-russias-vkontakte/
Not OK on VK
An Analysis of In-Platform Censorship on Russia’s VKontakte
July 26, 2023

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zhijinghaofromchina

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52610 on: March 16, 2024, 08:02:56 am »

That's right , I couldn't agree more. I still remember that during the spring holiday , one QQ chat group for my fellow townspeople's association in my university was blocked without any reason by the platform . My hometown 's fellow had no other choices but to reorganize another chat group . By the time I post this post , the chat group hasn't been reopened .

Talking about politics , also known as "键政" , (in Chinese , which means politics on the keyboard literally ) was replaced by some other homophonic words such as "剑阵"(literally sword formation ) "鉴证''(literally forensics ), etc. In the private chatgroups , it's safer to post some sexy girls ' pictures or even the nude ones , but it's a taboo to talk about politics , homophonic words are used again , such as "熊哥🐻bearbrother '' represents for the president Xi , which can evade surveillance .

Talking about the tik toks , if the USA banned it , I wouldn't disagree with it , it is time for the foreigners to use VPN to watch the ''foreign'' shortvideos , the US is going to be another china , just like us !
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EuchreJack

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52611 on: March 16, 2024, 04:31:17 pm »

Making it so only slightly smarter people can access the fontal cortex connection to their brain owned by China is a good thing, in my opinion.

...and if X could be banned at the same time, I would 100% agree with that.

The_Explorer

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52612 on: March 17, 2024, 04:22:04 pm »

Oh dear lord the media messed up big time. I don't even like trump which I've made apparent, but their bloodbath take ended up being a disaster when you view the whole video. Why I listen to peer to peer these days (which can be hard thats filled with lies too) than faux news or even cnn or whoever it is. Sad because CNN used to be the most trustworthy news, even faux news was better than they are now (which isn't saying much). But wow...

Just solidifies my stance to vote third party tbh, instead of voting for two junky as heck parties (and I'd vote ANYONE if it wasn't biden...give me hillary back I liked her :( guess most didn't ) that have WAY too much power and corruption in the US. I mean democrats are a bit better and I still lean that way if they didn't put up biden again, but with literally fake news being spread all over from everywhere, doesn't make it look much better.

This is a democracy, not supposed to be china 2.0 or russia with fraud news...

disappointing

Though the one good thing X/twitter is doing, which if you told me I'd say anything good from that junk months ago I'd laugh in your face is revealing all these lies from republicans and democrats. Its really shown how both parties are playing extremely dirty. Now I dunno even what news or source to look for though, there are WAY too many lies being thrown about. And with AI, its kinda hard to tell a really good AI generated video and a legit one, not 100% quite at that point but pretty darn close.

(though to add...)

I do know trump tried to have the government overthrown and people killed and his talk of mass migration...so I can see how bloodbath even just saying the word would be taken over context and be easily believable. But there is tons of legit things the media could focus on than giving ammo to maga supporters to point out how the media takes things out of context, which they are doing by the hundreds it seems on X/twitter. It definitely doesn't help get trump NOT elected. Like could focus on trump's anti-LGBT and his comments against trans, all kinds of things. Instead they kinda missed this one sadly. Either way, both candidates are lame will likely vote third party. If enough vote third party, maybe someone will win that isn't just blue or red.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2024, 06:09:51 pm by The_Explorer »
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Bumber

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52613 on: March 18, 2024, 02:24:55 am »

conversations among users


The SCOTUS decision ensured that Trump would remain on the ballot. The SCOTUS decision did not disagree with the Colorado decision.

Considering the Colorado decision was to have Trump removed from the ballot and any votes cast for him tossed, it absolutely disagreed. It's the central issue.

What position of mine are you trying to attack? What position of yours are you trying to defend?

Due process was followed in Colorado. The case was an attempt to remove him from the ballot and the defense failed to prove that Trump had not "engaged in an insurrection" and or that the sitting president is not an officer of the US. So, the 14th, which protects against abuses by state-level government against individuals, isn't an issue. In no way did Colorado need to wait for a federal charge and conviction against Trump to complete. The state has the right to adjudicate its own laws and their own constitution, just as the loser in the case has the right to appeal to the federal courts in an attempt to overturn the state courts.
If SCOTUS claims the sole authority to enforce 14A §3 lies at the federal level, it creates the obligation at the federal level for that authority to be exercised regarding the Colorado case. Colorado had the right to bring the case forward because the federal government did not.

SCOTUS ruled that Colorado has no right enforce the insurrection clause whatsoever. (This is mostly because Congress can waive the penalty after the election, however? I think they sidestepped ruling on the other issues, but they were clear that the 14th wasn't meant to give States more power after the war.) They didn't seem too favorable on the president being an "officer of the US", either.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2024, 02:39:00 am by Bumber »
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52614 on: March 18, 2024, 08:18:37 am »

Don't be a coward and claim you're voting third party because you don't like either, just own up to the fact that doing so is a chickenshit way of getting to vote for fascism and the end of democracy entirely.

It isn't a choice between two shitty options, it is a choice between getting to work towards a better future or never getting to choose shit again. We lucked out that the stupid orange turd was incompetent and had no idea how to capitalize on the pandemic to properly seize power. That isn't the case any longer, they straight up have plans ready to put into motion and complete the right wing takeover of the US once and for all.

Stupid assholes voting third party helped him win the first time, are you unaware of that?

Fucking christ man.
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The_Explorer

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52615 on: March 18, 2024, 10:34:15 am »

Don't be a coward and claim you're voting third party because you don't like either, just own up to the fact that doing so is a chickenshit way of getting to vote for fascism and the end of democracy entirely.

It isn't a choice between two shitty options, it is a choice between getting to work towards a better future or never getting to choose shit again. We lucked out that the stupid orange turd was incompetent and had no idea how to capitalize on the pandemic to properly seize power. That isn't the case any longer, they straight up have plans ready to put into motion and complete the right wing takeover of the US once and for all.

Stupid assholes voting third party helped him win the first time, are you unaware of that?

Fucking christ man.

I'm still voting third party like (at least some, but hopefully many) others are doing. The two choices are junk and at this point, biden isn't really doing much to persuade israel to stop what I consider genocide. Sure he is trying to placate the crowd and give food to palestines, but he has (as of now) not outright condemned, or stopped supporting israel. Trump would be worse yeah, but why would I want to vote for two turds. One is just the biggest turd, but a turd is a turd imo. This could very well be the year a third party actually ends up winning and making REAL change.

At this point, having just two choices everyone only votes on is one step away from what russia does and only really elects one person. I guess two is better than one, but like...the bigger point...look at most european nations, like france, sure some wackos there, but third parties (and same in australia I believe, just examples) actually get a LOT of votes and makes a big difference.

In US its time for the two party system to be retired, and do what europe (and again I think australia) does and have far stronger voting bases in third parties. To me, thats a real democracy, not a pseudo democracy or republic or whatever lame system thats currently in place.

Plus maybe third parties can get 1 vote=1 person, instead of the dumb system where rural votes have all the advantage and city votes almost have none.

To add

People talk about change and improvement in this thread and elsewhere like reddit, but voting for the same thing each time isn't really change or improvement at all. Voting third party and enough third party voters, that would be REAL change and REAL improvement. I'd like the US votes to be more like europe and australia, vastly better system imo
« Last Edit: March 18, 2024, 10:36:36 am by The_Explorer »
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McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52616 on: March 18, 2024, 11:12:29 am »

Vote third party for local and congress.  Voting 3rd party in the presidential election is basically deferring to other people.  The way to get more viable candidates for the Presidential election is to have more viable 3rd-party candidates at other levels first.
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The_Explorer

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52617 on: March 18, 2024, 11:26:50 am »

I do see your point. And the election is a ways off, I mean most people (well I think most, besides the always vote blue, always vote red side) really don't even decide until the DAY of the election...which...is kinda sad in many ways.

I mean, by then israel could way overstep boundaries and force biden to cut all ties with them. That would be a HUGE step toward a vote for biden for me. I mean there is an israel thread so I don't want to make this an israel thread, so I'll leave it at that. Thats really the stickling thing though currently, and hey by elections who knows what could happen. People still predicting china to do stuff (probably won't ever at this point) or nato joins ukraine to defend against russia some seem to be predicting.

Point all, is a lot can change from now to elections. So while I'm not pleased by either side, I still lean toward democrats, just...I mean like the media comment I made, there is a ton more legit stuff they could have focused on instead of THAT which republicans grasped at that victory of theirs. Don't see a need to play so dirty, when trump is doing good enough at making himself look bad as it is lol
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Strongpoint

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52618 on: March 18, 2024, 11:47:01 am »

But... but... If the issue of Israel is so important to you. Trump is way more pro-Netanyahu and will do anything he can to help this guy stay in power.

Also, you misunderstand European politics. In most presidential elections, it ends with a vote for one of two guys you dislike less.
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52619 on: March 18, 2024, 12:00:16 pm »

But... but... If the issue of Israel is so important to you. Trump is way more pro-Netanyahu and will do anything he can to help this guy stay in power.

Also, you misunderstand European politics. In most presidential elections, it ends with a vote for one of two guys you dislike less.

Either way, whether I vote third party or biden kinda still remains to be seen. If vote was today, I would vote third party, in the future dunno.

Anyway...since that will end up in a loop of an argument where no ones changing minds...

You don't need to convince me to like trump any less, I already don't like him lol. He is a corrupt blowhard mafia dude pretty much to me, and a blithering idiot. Dunno how anyone could like him. AND he didn't actually do anything last time he was president except talk, but nothing was done.

Actually stuff WAS done under trump. Just stuff not in the interest of the US. He all but gave WHO to china. When he defunded WHO, china swooped in and was the major donator to WHO. Out of all the things he did, this is most blatant to me of a disaster of a president and one I like to point out the most...since even republicans care about that (at least some of them).

Like, trump literally didn't really do anything. Handled covid just as terribly as he did WHO. He literally did nothing for his entire time, nothing was done.

So I do give Biden kudos to that, at least stuff gets done under Biden. He negotiates extremely well, he always has and I DO like that
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