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[Maximum Spin]

Do what?

Beating people up, kicking asses, murdering people, the stuff you're always going on about.

Murdering people? I'm talking about nazis here, not people.

It's funny to me how you agree with Richard Spencer on everything except the correct target.

[Rolan7]

Do what?

Beating people up, kicking asses, murdering people, the stuff you're always going on about.

Murdering people? I'm talking about nazis here, not people.

It's funny to me how you agree with Richard Spencer on everything except the correct target.

This is somehow even stupider than bragging about chugging scalding hot drinks (McDonald's is never gonna date you), and infinitely more vile.

Dehumanizing someone for dehumanizing entire classes of people isn't great, but it doesn't make you "just as bad".  Obviously.  Literally the only reason to pretend so is to support genociders.  That's not cancellation or something, that's simply just the only reason to constantly do so.

Wanting to fight members of a genocidal movement isn't bigotry, it's self defense or community defense.  Yes they can deconvert- that's what makes them so horrible for remaining in the movement.  Their victims CAN'T.  So if they're adults and set on that path, they deserve no sympathy.

We can talk about the conditions which lead to them becoming murderous human filth, but that's what they choose to be.

[Maximum™]

Yup, choosing to be a bigoted racist piece of shit is on them, I default to not siding with bullies, abusers, racists, rapists, nazis, and so forth.

Generally though people stop wanting to be a thing that gets them popped in the jaw long before you end up actually killing them.

It's hard to beat someone to death, it's harder to convince a terrible garbage heap of racist shit to stop being terrible by peacefully debating them, though.

They want us to hold to the idea that we're better than them by refusing violence, but the appropriate response to intolerance is not tolerance, and nazis existing openly is always an implicit threat of violence for their targets.

They aren't simply disagreeing about politics, they believe only certain people should have power based on the color of their skin, and ultimately the right to exist should be tied to that according to them.

[hector13]

Generally though people stop wanting to be a thing that gets them popped in the jaw long before you end up actually killing them

That’s why Naziism died in the early 1920s when Hitler was jailed for attempting to overthrow a regional government oh wait I mean the late 1930s when Britain declared war on them oh wait I mean in the first half of the 1940s when there was a war on you know oh wait I mean the latter half of the 1940s when several high profile Nazis were sentenced to death for war crimes oh wait it’s still extant 80 years later and people being confronted with violence for their beliefs are inexplicably unwilling to change their beliefs wow who’d have thought.

[Maximum Spin]

Wanting to fight members of a genocidal movement isn't bigotry, it's self defense or community defense.  Yes they can deconvert- that's what makes them so horrible for remaining in the movement.  Their victims CAN'T.  So if they're adults and set on that path, they deserve no sympathy.

It tells me a lot about you as a person that the only reason you can imagine for not murdering someone is "sympathy".

We can talk about the conditions which lead to them becoming murderous human filth, but that's what they choose to be.

It's also what Name Thief™ is choosing to be, seemingly with your full-throated support. Nevertheless, your choice to desire and even advocate for someone's death is just not my business, no matter how disgusting I find it.

ETA: You know, there's this argument that very, very stupid people make... it goes something like, "LITERALLY the only reason to disagree with me is if you secretly support evil!" People like that are morons. I'm glad I don't know any. I mean, how dumb would you have to be to be completely unable to even imagine the idea of someone having a different worldview. That would be really depressing.

[Rolan7]

Wanting to fight members of a genocidal movement isn't bigotry, it's self defense or community defense.  Yes they can deconvert- that's what makes them so horrible for remaining in the movement.  Their victims CAN'T.  So if they're adults and set on that path, they deserve no sympathy.

It tells me a lot about you as a person that the only reason you can imagine for not murdering someone is "sympathy".

Huh?  Seriously, what?
I don't condone murder at all (I'm not some cop apologist).  I don't even want to kill Nazis even in self-defense, even though they explicitly and proudly want to kill me.  I believe in restorative justice, not itching to castle-doctrine people over petty theft (apologies if that wasn't you).

The Sartre quote is a warning, not a commandment, you know?  But I guess sometimes absurdity is the best defense.

We can talk about the conditions which lead to them becoming murderous human filth, but that's what they choose to be.

It's also what Name Thief™ is choosing to be, seemingly with your full-throated support. Nevertheless, your choice to desire and even advocate for someone's death is just not my business, no matter how disgusting I find it.

ETA: You know, there's this argument that very, very stupid people make... it goes something like, "LITERALLY the only reason to disagree with me is if you secretly support evil!" People like that are morons. I'm glad I don't know any. I mean, how dumb would you have to be to be completely unable to even imagine the idea of someone having a different worldview. That would be really depressing.

Again, this "Organizing against murderers makes you the real murderer" line has literally only one possible purpose.  Or maybe I'm wrong, maybe there's a good explanation for why you keep equivocating Nazis and people who resist Nazis.  I'm kinda a dumbass, maybe I missed something!  Usually you love to explain things, so... go ahead.

Oooor you could pretend that I a hypothetical stupid person is calling you a Nazi for disagreeing with them.
Gosh, they sure sound unreasonable.  What did y'all disagree about?

Bizarre aside aside, I still see only one explanation for why you're calling people murderers for wanting to resist Nazis.  Hey, is a cop finally a murderer in your eyes if they stop a Nazi?  (don't worry, this is extremely hypothetical)

[Schmaven]

ETA: You know, there's this argument that very, very stupid people make... it goes something like, "LITERALLY the only reason to disagree with me is if you secretly support evil!" People like that are morons. I'm glad I don't know any. I mean, how dumb would you have to be to be completely unable to even imagine the idea of someone having a different worldview. That would be really depressing.

I don't think it's stupidity so much as it is self-centered-ness.  By holding so strongly to their own personal views, and being unwilling to entertain the views of others, their own view is rigidly maintained by labeling all dissenting opinions as faulty and immoral.  Since various cultures in the world have different needs and wishes, there are necessarily going to be differences in world views.  There is no 1 world view to rule them all.

[Maximum™]

Did they call me name thief?

I'm Max™ bro, I have no idea what the password for that account is, and I can't fix it because I have no idea what the password for the email I registered under is anymore, having all your shit saved on decade old systems has risks if you lose access to it.

Like, 2FA wasn't even a regular thing when I made that account, and the email I could have used to get it back is from a site that doesn't exist anymore!

[Micro102]

The important difference is immutable traits. Wanting to get rid of people because they have a certain amount of melanin in their skin is very different from wanting to get rid of people because they want to get rid of people with a certain amount of melanin in their skin. Just like wanting to restrain someone and lock them in a room for sexual stuff is very different from wanting to restrain someone and lock them in a room for wanting to restrain someone and lock them in a room for sexual stuff. Racism and hatred of racism are not equal beliefs.

Also, Hector, if Hitler was not released after 5 years for his first coup attempt, there would not be a Nazi Germany. So I'd say they simply were not hard enough on him.

[scriver]

Do what?

Beating people up, kicking asses, murdering people, the stuff you're always going on about.

Murdering people? I'm talking about nazis here, not people.

It's funny to me how you agree with Richard Spencer on everything except the correct target.

This is somehow even stupider than bragging about chugging scalding hot drinks (McDonald's is never gonna date you), and infinitely more vile.

Dehumanizing someone for dehumanizing entire classes of people isn't great, but it doesn't make you "just as bad".  Obviously.  Literally the only reason to pretend so is to support genociders.  That's not cancellation or something, that's simply just the only reason to constantly do so.

Wanting to fight members of a genocidal movement isn't bigotry, it's self defense or community defense.  Yes they can deconvert- that's what makes them so horrible for remaining in the movement.  Their victims CAN'T.  So if they're adults and set on that path, they deserve no sympathy.

We can talk about the conditions which lead to them becoming murderous human filth, but that's what they choose to be.

You're literally siding with a murderous bigot here. And Max doesn't "just want to murder nazis" (like that's a non-issue) he wants to murder anyone he thinks is a nazi, which includes me, a max spin, and Hector, simply because we disagree with him about murdering nazis, because the only reason anyone could disagree with him about murdering nazis is if they are a nazi.

[Lord Shonus]

Apart from anything else, "nazis aren't people!!!" is an excellent "out" to slip into some really nasty bigotry yourself. Recognizing that bigots - even the most extreme - are people just like you comes with an awareness that you can turn into one if you allow it. Which in turn means that you have the ability to stop and go "wait a second" when you start getting irritated by something that Those People are doing and step back.

If you've convinced yourself that "all bigots are nazis, and nazis aren't people", it is incredibly easy to have a moment like that and "no, I can't be acting bigoted, because I'm a people, not a nazi!" and proceed down the ugly train of thought.


This is the same phenomenon that comes from people learning extremely oversimplified stories of slavery and lynchings*, decide that all the people who did that were Bad People, and proceed to live in a fairly racist way without even realizing it because they're a Good People, not a Bad People.

[hector13]

The important difference is immutable traits. Wanting to get rid of people because they have a certain amount of melanin in their skin is very different from wanting to get rid of people because they want to get rid of people with a certain amount of melanin in their skin. Just like wanting to restrain someone and lock them in a room for sexual stuff is very different from wanting to restrain someone and lock them in a room for wanting to restrain someone and lock them in a room for sexual stuff. Racism and hatred of racism are not equal beliefs.

Also, Hector, if Hitler was not released after 5 years for his first coup attempt, there would not be a Nazi Germany. So I'd say they simply were not hard enough on him.

He got released barely a year later. There was a lot more to the rise of the Nazis than just Hitler though. Economic woes of the 20s combined with some foolish political decisions within and without Germany, to put it (over)simply.

[Micro102]

People are capable of making mistakes or misjudging situations, and sometimes there are liars and bad faith actors, so the death penalty is never the answer. We can easily throw all the Nazis in prison.

He got released barely a year later. There was a lot more to the rise of the Nazis than just Hitler though. Economic woes of the 20s combined with some foolish political decisions within and without Germany, to put it (over)simply.

Huh.... Maybe I was remembering 5 months for some reason?

[anewaname]

Yeah... it is their actions and your actions, not the labels, that makes people deserving of punishment. There should be recourse through law to seek punishments... but this is where the problem often is... unjust or non-representing laws.

[bloop_bleep]

People's often can't seem to distinguish between what makes them warm and fuzzy and self-righteous inside and what is actually effective political action. Something giving you catharsis doesn't mean it's right or effective, guys, and doing it otherwise anyway is just self-serving.

I don't believe in violence not in self-defence and in peacetime outside that ordained by a fair court because otherwise that leads pretty directly into lynchings. And if a Nazi hasn't hurt or threatened anyone or abetted any crimes and just spouts bigoted shit sometimes that's annoying to listen to, no, you shouldn't assault them, what the fuck. You might as well say every 12 year old that is being edgy on the Internet from listening to their favorite Gamer youtuber should be buried alive.