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[hector13]

You seem to be under the impression that’s going to be a bad thing for him.

He’s been harping on and on and on and on about all of this being a politically motivated witch hunt for the last year or so, if he gets thrown in jail for speaking, all of his threats about there being a deep-state conspiracy against him are going to seem that much more real to possible supporters.

[Random_Dragon]

His wannabe fascist bootlickers are gonna riot regardless, so fuck 'em. We aren't out of this until well after the cheeto's doing the hempen jig (rather, him getting properly punished for treason would be the bare minimum to put us on the track to not becoming a fascist shithole, which I feel is unlikely as the end of this sentence implies), so I'm still leery that this will go anywhere. :/

[Maximum™]

Look, I'm unable to care what magaturds think about anything, they're going to do the stupidest shit imaginable no matter what happens, and I hope they shit themselves in angry stupidity over their garbageleader going to prison... but the risk of them ruining their undies doesn't remotely compare to the risk of letting attempted fascist takeovers to go unpunished.

Once their stupid orange turd is in his matching orange jumpsuit they can rage and moan all they want, and the proper response isn't to coddle them, it is to ostracize and mock them for being stupid fucking fascists until they fuck off into the ocean or stop being fascists.

[hector13]

It’s not his supporters that are to be worried about, I said potential supporters, folk on the fence about him. He won’t be getting punished for an attempted fascist takeover, he’ll be getting punished for speaking, which is going to make it seem like what he says about there being a conspiracy against him will be true.

It does matter that his supporters (as potential ones) get angry, because anger is a ridiculously good motivator - I don’t like arguing with people on the interweb, I have been involved in an argument with an interweb stranger for the last two days because they blame a professional for the consequences of ignoring the professional opinion - and it defies logic. Trump and the Republicans have been saying the electoral infrastructure is broken and biased against them… yet they still take part in elections. His angry supporters will come out in their droves to vote and make it difficult for the election workers to do their job. That’s a bit more problematic than them shitting their pants.

When was the last time you changed your opinion because someone said “well you’re a fucking idiot for believing that, moron”? Fascists aren’t above using political violence. I mean that’s part of their jam, so mocking them and ostracizing them won’t make them go away, it won’t make them change their mind, it just gives them targets for that violence. Treating them like human beings and that you treat their concerns as serious (however trivial or out of touch with reality) will work much better, but the political geography doesn’t allow Montagues and Capulets to mix so it’s not going to happen.

Take Lisa Cameron as an example. Long story short and vastly oversimplifying things, she was an SNP politician who recently defected to the Conservatives because the SNP were mean to her and the Conservatives were nice.

Edit: Jordan’s also out as the speaker nominee. Democrats being blamed by angry Republicans, because it’s obviously the Dem’s fault Republicans can’t come to an agreement

[Ziusudra]

House Republicans drop Jim Jordan as their nominee for speaker, stumbling back to square one

[Maximum™]

Hate to break it to you, but treating nazis like they have serious concerns worthy of debate instead of accepting that being a nazi is a form of violence with no place in society only helps nazis.

After we defeat them here, then we can worry about defeating them in the realm of fair and reasoned debate or whatever.

We should have been punching nazis as soon as they popped back up nearly a decade ago. We should have kept punching when they started marching with tiki torches instead of "hearing out their grievances" or "treating their arguments fairly" because their grievances are "non-white people exist" and their arguments are "only white people should have any power or be allowed any freedoms" so fuck those shitbags completely.

Letting them exist within society at all does nothing but help them and harm everyone else, they can fuck off into the wilderness and rant about jews until they get tired of being ignored and excluded and accept that part of being a member of society includes not being a goddamn fascist turd.

[MrRoboto75]

Tbh if it were me with his crimes, there wouldn't even be a trial.  CIA would've shot me dead for leaking nuclear secrets.

[Micro102]

Mocking and ostracizing come after reason fails. You can't reason with "There is a global conspiracy that has been running for decades where hundreds of millions of people have managed to keep quite about it" and every time you point out a contradiction the conspiracy just gets larger.

So you make it so everyone else knows what happens when you become the raving lunatic talking about Jewish space lasers or how face masks are a government plot to control you. If you treat them seriously, then people who don't quite have all their screws loose have a chance to go "O, they are trying to reason that guy talking about how the holocaust didn't happen out of believing that. They must see that there is a point to what they are saying.". I liken it to creationists. A scientist shouldn't debate a creationist. The creationist is just flat out not going to be honest about anything and will simply use their "debate" as justification of their argument. I'll also point to anti-vaxxers on twitter. Just letting bad ideas float around for open debate doesn't stop them. It just spreads to the most vulnerable people who in turn spread it, and then you end up with a community that gets their children killed.

[hector13]

I said nothing about debating them or taking the belief seriously, I said to treat them like a human being, and their concerns seriously. Job prospects and school places and housing costs are concerns, wanting to lynch all the non-white folks because of it is the belief.

Hate is a learned response, and you don’t make it go away by punching someone. Did Richard Spencer stop talking about white supremacy because someone punched him? No. Did he leave America because someone punched him? No. Did he learn that white supremacy was an idiotic belief? No.

Did him getting punched put him (and his views!) in the national, even global, spotlight? Abso-fuckin’-lutely. How is that a good thing? The problem isn’t the people, or even the idea, per se. The problem is the idea spreading and it being acceptable to have someone like Richard Spencer in the media claiming he’s the victim because someone sucker punched him over his views, and then being allowed to voice those views in the bullshit way that racists try to couch things to make it more palatable to people.

[Random_Dragon]

Well easy answer there: the sort of people calling to lynch people are going to be murderous assholes regardless...unless one does more than punch them. :V

[hector13]

The sort of people calling for lynching are very rarely the people actually performing the lynchings, as evidence by Donald Trump not marching in the Capital with his supporters.

Not allowing them to get that message out by having them say it in the national media is probably a decent start to stopping people hearing it.

[anewaname]

People who want someone with authority to give them the right to hurt people...

[Maximum™]

Uh, funny you mention Spencer, who got popped, turned into a meme, and most recently been trying to distance himself from the alt-right shit.

https://twitter.com/aamer_rahman/status/927644648893399040


Note that Trump DESPERATELY wanted to go to the capital but his lawyers realized that the president is ABSOLUTELY not allowed to just show up in the capital without being specifically invited, like as bad as sending a bunch of dumbfucks to do an insurrection was, they realized odds of him and anybody who assisted him getting capped and/or dying in prison if not executed for treason were pretty good if he just tried to waltz in there with them, whole different ballgame of fucking around with all sorts of different levels of finding out that would be involved.

Same goes if a bunch of senators or reps tried to barge into the white house, would not be surprising if they just got shot by the secret service, there's a reason that sort of shit never happens.

[hector13]

He got popped six years ago and helped organize the unite the right rally eight months later, where he was recorded using slurs afterward.

He supported Biden in 2020, but didn’t renounce any of the white supremacist nonsense, basically just said Trump wasn’t what he hoped for and that “we will have our time in the sun again”, which sounds an awful lot more like he’s just Biden his time, if you’ll excuse the pun.

The bit that concerns me most:

"The MAGA/Alt-Right moment is over. I made mistakes; Trump is an obvious disaster; but mainly the paradigm contained flaws that we now are able to perceive. And it needs to end," Spencer wrote. "So be patient. We'll have another day in the sun. We need to recover and return in a new form."

In another tweet, Spencer added: "I will never flip on my fundamental principles. (My principles were never voting for the supposed 'the lesser or two evils' or 'stopping big government.')

So yeah, he’s quiet, which is good, but probably not gone.

[scriver]

Mocking and ostracizing come after reason fails. You can't reason with "There is a global conspiracy that has been running for decades where hundreds of millions of people have managed to keep quite about it" and every time you point out a contradiction the conspiracy just gets larger.

So you make it so everyone else knows what happens when you become the raving lunatic talking about Jewish space lasers or how face masks are a government plot to control you. If you treat them seriously, then people who don't quite have all their screws loose have a chance to go "O, they are trying to reason that guy talking about how the holocaust didn't happen out of believing that. They must see that there is a point to what they are saying.". I liken it to creationists. A scientist shouldn't debate a creationist. The creationist is just flat out not going to be honest about anything and will simply use their "debate" as justification of their argument. I'll also point to anti-vaxxers on twitter. Just letting bad ideas float around for open debate doesn't stop them. It just spreads to the most vulnerable people who in turn spread it, and then you end up with a community that gets their children killed.

Why aren't you doing that then? Are you a nazi?