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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4470902 times)

McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #49875 on: November 07, 2022, 06:23:02 pm »

What kind of foolish headline is this?  It's obviously political, the day before mid-term elections:

"Biden's stock market record so far is the second worst since Jimmy Carter"

Sad thing is, people will actually believe that a president is responsible for a nation's economy in a global economic world.

What's really annoying is that while it's a true statement it implies things that aren't true and encourages the easily-swayed to treat it as causation instead of correlation.
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Il Palazzo

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #49876 on: November 07, 2022, 06:33:07 pm »

'Global warming worst ever since Biden in office'
'Inflation a problem during Biden administration'
'Worldwide daily death numbers highest in history while Biden presides'
'Cumulative COVID deaths reach new record under Biden'
'Biden presidency sees Biden grow the oldest he's ever been'
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The_Explorer

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #49877 on: November 07, 2022, 06:51:32 pm »

The only headline that would be true...that no one runs with, NO MEDIA RUNS WITH...even so before elections....

"President with most jobs lost on record...Trump"

The most businesses closed ever (in modern history) was under trump.

no ones running with that story :( or none that I've seen anyway
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hector13

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #49878 on: November 07, 2022, 07:17:40 pm »

Trump is as responsible for that as Biden is responsible for all the things happening during his presidency.
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nenjin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #49879 on: November 07, 2022, 07:33:59 pm »

So while I've tried my best at remaining as positive as possible, and it does look good from what I'm reading in most places.

But from all of yours point of view, how does it actually look for democrats coming up tomorrow? Is it as I've said and we are kicking butt in comparison to what they predicted, or should I actually start getting a bit worried? I know its a day early as of this post...but I dunno getting bad feelings. But again still trying to stay as positive as possible

Put it this way....what benefit does worrying get you? You know how you're going to vote, there's no time to take any sort of action to help the results (like canvassing, getting people registered, etc...) so....worrying literally does nothing for you.

Good or bad, the world doesn't end tomorrow.

Probably.
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The_Explorer

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #49880 on: November 07, 2022, 08:23:44 pm »

Trump is as responsible for that as Biden is responsible for all the things happening during his presidency.

Not entirely.

Trump botched covid completely. That was the #1 source of business closures and job losses. Could been lots of things to do. Help pay businesses so they don't close or void their rent fees or whatever they pay (like they did for a lot of renters). Lots of things could been done. And then trump made a mockery out of covid resulting in lots of deaths and illnesses. This probably was the biggest source of business and job losses honestly, was gonna make a bit of a list but hard to beat this one down. Of course, a lot of people were involved with covid and stuff, but in the end trump said "fake news" "its fake" and all kinds of junk and just didn't take it seriously what so ever.
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Dostoevsky

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #49881 on: November 07, 2022, 10:06:21 pm »

So while I've tried my best at remaining as positive as possible, and it does look good from what I'm reading in most places.

But from all of yours point of view, how does it actually look for democrats coming up tomorrow? Is it as I've said and we are kicking butt in comparison to what they predicted, or should I actually start getting a bit worried? I know its a day early as of this post...but I dunno getting bad feelings. But again still trying to stay as positive as possible

Since it hasn't been said in here yet, remember there's a pretty good chance control of the Senate (and maybe even the House) won't be known for days or weeks. Could end up with another Dec/Jan runoff in GA determining the Senate, too.

So it's going to be a long and likely unpleasant process. (Though personally I think we'll be able to tell whether the Rs have flipped the House by Wednesday, that doesn't mean there won't be close outcomes and acrimony.)
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nenjin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #49882 on: November 07, 2022, 10:37:41 pm »

I think there's going to be a lot of contested elections in several states. So I would prepare for a lot of uncertainty for a few weeks afterward at a minimum.

Which, depending on political goals, some might count as a win. One the best ways to "prove" to the public that democracy is broken is to fuck up the execution of it so bad that the ability to govern soundly breaks down. When daily governance breaks down enough, people start acting in ways they "have to." Both at the citizen and elected official level, those are the noises people will start making. And whoever is in power when they declare that the system has broken down is now ruling by default.

It's like, forget these people actually getting elected to office and undermining democracy. They can do that just by slowing down and snarling the whole election process. AZ in 2020 was a preview I think of what we're going to see across several states. It was like 60 lawsuits from Trump for the 2020 elections. Imagine 100. 150. 200.

Just watched a Last Week Tonight on this so it's all pretty fresh in my head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0LA7Ff2hgs

Republicans are basically benefiting from two basic outcomes of the elections, and they're ensuring it by packing the election machinery in states with as many sympathizers as possible. Also possibly those willing to break the law to win.

Outcome 1: Their candidates win. Whether legitimately or because of fuckery, that's an outcome they want.
Outcome 2: The election is so mangled and the process so riddled with suits and counter-suits that it take a year? to certify many states. Incumbents continue on in the interim. The public loses interest and starts to think that the vote is "all just bullshit anyways." This is an outcome that Republicans would also call a win condition.
Outcome 3: We have a fair election, candidates get elected "like they're supposed to" based on the current districting make up. Republicans consider this a loss because it's not total victory and some crackpot that didn't win majority support didn't get elected. 

Like, think about the environment of Republican poll workers or officials sabotaging or misreporting the results, refusing to investigate and/or falsifying the results of their own investigations. That would put Democrats in the position of having to allege fraud and a stolen election....which they just spent the last cycle debunking and still 61% of Republicans believe it happened. (Anyone remember Bush v. Gore?) If every election going forward has either side passionately or factually asserting fraud occurred, then public confidence in elections get eroded and people stop paying attention. And the people fighting to keep democracy on the rails (I.e. election commissioners and people still willing to obey the law) eventually give up. It's kind of diabolical when you get down to it.

You have to start thinking about these things in terms of what would the most desperate and the least moral actor would do. Kind of the classic "Evil always wins because it's willing to do things good would not" theme. That's what fills me with anxiety. At the end of the day, it feels like Republicans have less distance to go to transform the reality of electoral politics compared to the distance Democrats have to prevent it.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2022, 10:42:02 pm by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
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Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Vector

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #49883 on: November 08, 2022, 12:16:55 pm »

Hi America, have an overtly fascist speech.

You need to actually watch the clip. The new part happens towards the end.
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Il Palazzo

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #49884 on: November 08, 2022, 01:09:02 pm »

Is he talking about the Jeeeewz?
He probably meant the democrats, though.
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Vector

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #49885 on: November 08, 2022, 01:19:25 pm »

Could be the Jews, the queers, the feminists, the trade unionists, the "illegals," who knows ... Them.
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Sirus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #49886 on: November 08, 2022, 01:48:04 pm »

I regret reading the replies, hoo boy.

We're going to have some interesting times ahead, regardless of whether Trump rots in prison or not. The genie is out of the bottle and it's not going to go back willingly.
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McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #49887 on: November 08, 2022, 02:10:24 pm »

I gotta say, it's weird how he's just saying words, but I don't think he even knows what they mean.  Like "uphold the Constitution" and "this land is your birthright" and "Judeo-Christian values."

He's got good writers though - basically says things so vague they can mean anything, which lets people create and perpetuate their own worldviews.

"Everyone did what was right in their own eyes" seems to be the motto of the age again.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #49888 on: November 08, 2022, 02:20:39 pm »

I think there's going to be a lot of contested elections in several states. So I would prepare for a lot of uncertainty for a few weeks afterward at a minimum.

Which, depending on political goals, some might count as a win. One the best ways to "prove" to the public that democracy is broken is to fuck up the execution of it so bad that the ability to govern soundly breaks down. When daily governance breaks down enough, people start acting in ways they "have to." Both at the citizen and elected official level, those are the noises people will start making. And whoever is in power when they declare that the system has broken down is now ruling by default.

The new Congress doesn't take office until January for this exact reason. The idea of knowing all the outcomes on Election Night is a very new one. Like, within living memory new. Having to wait weeks to find out who won is a normal and expected result, which the system is built around.
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hector13

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #49889 on: November 08, 2022, 02:34:24 pm »

I think there's going to be a lot of contested elections in several states. So I would prepare for a lot of uncertainty for a few weeks afterward at a minimum.

Which, depending on political goals, some might count as a win. One the best ways to "prove" to the public that democracy is broken is to fuck up the execution of it so bad that the ability to govern soundly breaks down. When daily governance breaks down enough, people start acting in ways they "have to." Both at the citizen and elected official level, those are the noises people will start making. And whoever is in power when they declare that the system has broken down is now ruling by default.

The new Congress doesn't take office until January for this exact reason. The idea of knowing all the outcomes on Election Night is a very new one. Like, within living memory new. Having to wait weeks to find out who won is a normal and expected result, which the system is built around.

Nah the length of time it takes to count and ratify votes is for RaMpAnT cOrRuPtIoN to be made easier. Obviously.
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