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[hector13]

Can we start calling the pro-life lobby the anti-woman lobby?

See, this I think highlights the problem.

Women make up more than 50% of the population.  If all women supported the right to an abortion, this issue would be moot.

There must be large numbers of women that support the anti-abortion agenda.

You vastly overestimate the influence women have on decisions they’re allowed to make on their own bodily autonomy.

[EuchreJack]

Can we start calling the pro-life lobby the anti-woman lobby?

See, this I think highlights the problem.

Women make up more than 50% of the population.  If all women supported the right to an abortion, this issue would be moot.

There must be large numbers of women that support the anti-abortion agenda.

You vastly overestimate the influence women have on decisions they’re allowed to make on their own bodily autonomy.

... they're allowed to fucking vote.

[MaxTheFox]

This, ladies and gentlemen and enbies, is what I call a certified bruh moment.

[MrRoboto75]

More than 50% of voters voted for Clinton in 2016.

Say, who was president for 2016-2020?

[hector13]

Can we start calling the pro-life lobby the anti-woman lobby?

See, this I think highlights the problem.

Women make up more than 50% of the population.  If all women supported the right to an abortion, this issue would be moot.

There must be large numbers of women that support the anti-abortion agenda.

You vastly overestimate the influence women have on decisions they’re allowed to make on their own bodily autonomy.

... they're allowed to fucking vote.

Haven’t you heard? Conservatives are trying to make it so the plebs can’t vote, too. Gerrymandering, voter suppression laws, conspiracy theories about voter fraud, raiding the Capitol, etc.

Of course that doesn’t really matter when it was an entirely unelected body, appointed for life, that has taken that right to bodily autonomy away from them. How does voting help there?

Regardless of all that, the vast majority of Americans believe abortion should be legal in all or most cases. We now have an activist court as the highest body of jurisprudence in land, which does not represent the views of its people.

[Folly]

Of course that doesn’t really matter when it was an entirely unelected body, appointed for life, that has taken that right to bodily autonomy away from them. How does voting help there?

Vote for a Congressional representative who will restore abortion rights?

[EuchreJack]

Of course that doesn’t really matter when it was an entirely unelected body, appointed for life, that has taken that right to bodily autonomy away from them. How does voting help there?

Vote for a Congressional representative who will restore abortion rights?

Thanks Folly, I was getting worried I was the only one that had figured that out.

You also need a President that won't veto it, or enough representatives to override the veto  It's probably a plan that will take a few years, but there are elections now. Primaries are coming up very soon. Some are over, but most are coming up. You need to be enrolled in a political party to vote in the primary. In fact, it's the best part of being enrolled in a political party!
This should help

[Rolan7]

Primaries are coming up very soon. Some are over, but most are coming up. You need to be enrolled in a political party to vote in the primary. In fact, it's the best part of being enrolled in a political party!
This should help

Huh, really?  My primary was like a month ago, in NC.  I didn't realize the timing was so irregular.  yay state sovereignty /s

I do strongly suggest voting in primaries and the general election.  I would hope you'll all join me in bringing disenfrachised people to the polls, in defiance of the anti-democratic measures enacted by (almost always) Republicans.  If you drive a vehicle and have the time, you can help.

But electoralism is not a magic bullet.  It shifts our ruling body ever so slightly more towards freedom, that's all.

[MrRoboto75]

Just win every election in perpetuity, as if repubs get majority even once you lose 20+ years of progress no big deal.

[EuchreJack]

Primaries are coming up very soon. Some are over, but most are coming up. You need to be enrolled in a political party to vote in the primary. In fact, it's the best part of being enrolled in a political party!
This should help

Huh, really?  My primary was like a month ago, in NC.  I didn't realize the timing was so irregular.  yay state sovereignty /s

I do strongly suggest voting in primaries and the general election.  I would hope you'll all join me in bringing disenfrachised people to the polls, in defiance of the anti-democratic measures enacted by (almost always) Republicans.  If you drive a vehicle and have the time, you can help.

But electoralism is not a magic bullet.  It shifts our ruling body ever so slightly more towards freedom, that's all.

Democrats in New York pulled the same shit as Republicans in other states. It's mostly the party in power using that power to stay in power. You can see how, as a New York Republican, I get pissy when people say it's just Republicans, when I know better.

I think the overall national voting rate is like 20%. It actually doesn't take a lot to make a difference with that sort of turnout.

[Rolan7]

I'll say this - while you upset me a lot of the time, you also continue to surprise me in a good way.  Maybe I'm crazy, but I wish it were Republicans like you leading the party rather than the current situation.

[EuchreJack]

Just win every election in perpetuity, as if repubs get majority even once you lose 20+ years of progress no big deal.

So, I think you don't actually understand the Supreme Court.

They don't ban Abortions, or anything really. They just refuse to prohibit the States from banning Abortions, overturning their own precedent that had prohibited the States from banning Abortions.

Long-term, these Justices have opened the door to decisions overturning this and other decisions. Since these Justices don't respect their predecessors, they in turn are unlikely to be respected by the Justices that replace them.

I'm being naively optimistic, but maybe this will be the kick in the pants that gets Congress to correct the issue.

[Telgin]

Regarding the religion topic brought up earlier: maybe it would be better to say that people will use religion to justify their beliefs on the subject.  It's clear that people follow group think and apply reasoning after the fact.  This applies to everyone, not just religious people, or conservatives.

Even so, when people genuinely believe that abortion is murdering babies (as they very much do say in churches), I don't find it hard to believe at all that a lot of Christian women would think it's required by their religion to oppose it even to their detriment.  I can say with great confidence that a lot of people in the Bible Belt give at least lip service to that idea, including women.  Naturally, a lot of people only give lip service to their religious beliefs, of course, but lip service is enough when it comes to the court of public opinion and spreading ideas.

I guess it's possible to believe that abortions are baby murder even without a religious bent to it, but I think being Christian makes it harder to not believe that for many.  If you believe in souls, for example, then it's natural to assume that souls are created or assigned at conception, because it would be kind of weird for a baby to only get a soul after some arbitrary amount of gestational time.  It's just easier to think it happens at conception and that you're killing a person no matter what at that point.  Or don't the Catholics believe that even contraception is contrary to God's plan, so how much worse is trying to undo his work?

I don't know.  If ~70% of the population supports leaving it available, then this must not be as widespread of a view as I've been led to believe.  I need to remind myself that I live in the sort of backwater country where churches also preach "Dollar General is part of the federal government conspiracy to take away your money and make you buy what They want you to buy."

On a related note, I'd be interested in seeing any scripture that supports abortion.  I've seen some dubious claims like this before but nothing that really looked like it supported it.  Barring explicit support for it, you have to fall back on things like "Thou Shalt Not Kill" and... see above.

[EuchreJack]

Good luck finding it unless you know exactly what you're looking for: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordeal_of_the_bitter_water

Gee, what exactly IS bitter water that a woman accused of Adultery drinks that "causes the Curse to overcome her"?

It's a fucking morning after pill, at a minimum.

The Bible supports Abortion. Make 'em read it and watch them squirm.

[Telgin]

I guess this discussion could be factored out to the religion thread, but I don't find that passage really convincing at all as support for abortion.  If anything it reads to me more like, "If she was an adulterer and drinks it, she'll die or be maimed."

The discussion on Wikipedia does give some texture from religious scholars who give a bit of reasoning where you could possibly construe the words to mean that abortion was allowed, but it looks like there's disagreement there and it looks like it takes some logical leaps I'm not really happy with.  I'm not sure it could be more confusingly translated to English, but I don't know Greek, Latin, Hebrew or whatever it was originally written in so I can't really dig into it for a deeper understanding.

On the other hand, if it does actually translate to supporting abortion in the event of infidelity, that's more than I'd have expected.  In fact, I'd pressure anyone who claims abortion as a sin to explain to me why abortion in the case of rape or incest should be allowed, if they think so.  A baby is a baby, after all.