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[hector13]

Nah, we'll probably be somewhere on the sliding scale of dystopias between that and, oh, nobody has any rights at all, because we're all owned by corporations?

I mean… despite being a white, cis-, heterosexual male (the only problem being I’m foreign and that being immediately obvious when I start talking) I don’t think that being the starting point on the sliding scale is good :p

[Folly]

why is it OK for different countries to have different views on this, but not different states?  Do you believe that everyone everywhere should have the same rules and social norms? If not, where do you draw the lines? Why stop at the borders of the US?

Nobody in politics thinks it's okay for other countries to have different views. They just say that it's okay whenever it's not financially or militarily practical to impose their will on others. This allows them to bide their time in peace until an opportunity for invasion presents itself.

[McTraveller]

Hey hey, you're not supposed to actually answer rhetorical questions.... 

[brewer bob]

On the topic of abortion specifically, I guess in practice the states that oppose this have been doing a good job of making it almost impossible to access already, but imagine you're in Texas and want or need an abortion.  Let's say you want the abortion because you're in no economic position to support a baby, which implies you have little to no extra income.  Now, someone says, "If you want an abortion, just go to California!"  Okay, so now you need to take time off work and spend what, at least a day driving there, paying for gas, and do the same on the way back?  As opposed to finding one locally if it were legal in Texas?  If you can't afford it, it's effectively illegal for you.

And that's just assuming that Texas merely criminalized it being performed in the state.  What happens if they criminalize having it done at all, and someone rats you out when you come back and you risk going to jail?

Yeah, those were my initial thoughts too. Another thought was that you'll probably see a rise in deaths related to DIY abortions (specifically among the poor). People will continue getting abortions whether it's illegal or not.

(Also, this ruling is probably a huge morale boost for the European far-right anti-abortion folks.)

[hector13]

That’ll only be poor people dying and nobody cares about that.

[bloop_bleep]

Texas, please secede. Please secede and go shit yourself when it turns out being terrible human beings 24/7 doesn't make for a stable functioning society on your own. Go eat each other in your den of corruption and fuck off away from us.

[brewer bob]

That’ll only be poor people dying and nobody cares about that.

Unfortunately true.

Anyway, while googling the topic, found this couple years old article from the Atlantic about illegal abortions.

A few snippets:

If other countries are a guide, abortion restrictions won’t reduce the number of abortions that take place: According to the Guttmacher Institute, abortion rates in countries where abortion is legal are similar to those in countries where it’s illegal. In parts of the world where abortion is illegal, botched abortions still cause about 8 to 11 percent of all maternal deaths, or about 30,000 each year.

But abortion-related deaths are much less common than they were a few decades ago, especially in countries with functional health-care systems. Since the early ’90s, abortion fatalities have declined by 42 percent globally.

Since the 1970s, women around the world have been able to take a common and cheap stomach-ulcer drug, misoprostol, to end their pregnancies without anyone knowing. It’s even more effective when taken in combination with another drug, mifepristone.

[...]

...most doctors can’t tell the difference between a miscarriage and an abortion induced by misoprostol, so they would occasionally report genuine miscarriages as abortions. In instances where police have searched a woman’s house and found a fetus, they have sometimes brought charges against her. Oberman says 129 women have been charged in this way, and about 36 have been charged with homicide and sentenced. Fewer than five of the 129, she estimates, were actual abortions.

Whether a self-induced abortion is dangerous appears to depend on where a woman gets her pills and what kind of information is available to help her.

[...]

If abortion is secretive and illegal, “who is going to be left out?” Oberman said. “The poorest women who have trouble accessing information.”

[Rolan7]

Texas, please secede. Please secede and go shit yourself when it turns out being terrible human beings 24/7 doesn't make for a stable functioning society on your own. Go eat each other in your den of corruption and fuck off away from us.

I get this, seriously, but Texans are like 49% great people.  Maybe significantly more, they're just gerrymandered and strategically denied accessible polling locations.

I hear quite a few non-chuds are fleeing Texas *if they can*, but there's still a ton of good people there.

Texas GOP seems pretty serious about secession which would be funny if it wasn't so dangerously stupid

[Strongpoint]

Texas, please secede. Please secede and go shit yourself when it turns out being terrible human beings 24/7 doesn't make for a stable functioning society on your own. Go eat each other in your den of corruption and fuck off away from us.

A secession of Texas would be an entertaining lesson to humanity. Cruel for good people living there but entertaining. Imagine watching how their economy collapses due to cut economic ties, lack of access to federal programs, and losing a lot of smart people fleeing to other states.

[Sirus]

I would fully expect pogroms within five years, ten at the most. Once the secessionists lose the ability to blame outsiders (read: the rest of the country) for their problems, they'd have to start blaming some convenient group or another.

[Il Palazzo]

I like to think Mexico would immediately invade.

[bloop_bleep]

Texas, please secede. Please secede and go shit yourself when it turns out being terrible human beings 24/7 doesn't make for a stable functioning society on your own. Go eat each other in your den of corruption and fuck off away from us.

I get this, seriously, but Texans are like 49% great people.  Maybe significantly more, they're just gerrymandered and strategically denied accessible polling locations.

I hear quite a few non-chuds are fleeing Texas *if they can*, but there's still a ton of good people there.

Texas GOP seems pretty serious about secession which would be funny if it wasn't so dangerously stupid

I know, I know. It was mostly a harsh reflection of my rage. I've been getting myself amped up on infuriating stories today.

[EuchreJack]

Note: States Rights has historically been used as the other reason the Confederacy rebelled against the Union.
So it wasn't that the Confederacy wanted to own black people.  Oh no!
It was that the Southern States didn't want to be told what to do!_{about owning black people}

[EuchreJack]

2) I don't want to be forced to have a child, because I don't want to pay for it -> Every deadbeat father in existence, NOT OK

"Giving birth will throw myself and my other children into poverty" is the typical socioeconomic argument recognized by feminists. This cannot be equated to the situation of "deadbeat dads." The assumption with "deadbeat dads" is that they are fine with their partners giving birth nine months after their thirty seconds' pleasurable investment, but have no intent of supporting the result financially. In this story, the "deadbeat dad" is capable of supporting the mother and her baby, but prefers not to, and there is ultimately little consequence to him whether his lover gives birth or not.

This is qualitatively different from not wanting to give birth, because one outcome for that parent will be very different, from a personal perspective, than the other. There is no such thing as little consequence to a person who is enduring the rigors of pregnancy or labor.

I have literally heard fathers trying to weasel out of child support saying exactly what you are saying. It's a slippery slope.
A father with two children in his care just doesn't want to pay for some other kid not in his care.
(what he actually does with the money...well I dunno, I just know what he was saying)

I should also point out, I never said anything about a parent who already has children.
Also, I could care less what feminists believe are valid arguments.  I don't defer my thinking to other people. If they have good arguments, then they are good arguments. Conversely, if their arguments are lousy, then their arguments are lousy.

[MorleyDev]

Personally I'm fine in concept with parents having the right to walk away from a child they don't want, so long as it's a complete walk away. No obligations means no rights, no visitation, no anything. Legally you essentially aren't their parent anymore.

My mum gave my biological father that choice when he was trying to avoid child support by fudging his books, and pissing off is the best thing he ever did for me.

In practice, this is going to rely on their being a decent welfare system in place for supporting single parents when one of them choses to waive their 'rights and obligations' as a parent.