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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4243556 times)

McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48330 on: May 09, 2022, 06:18:38 am »

Yes just what we need, more executive orders to bypass Congress.  You know how you get an authoritarian state? Executive Orders.

I also realize what I dislike about this conversation. The use of "the Democrats" and "the Republicans" is allowing the conversation to dehumanize actual individual people.  This dehumanization is what is going to kill our country, not any single particular law or SCOTUS ruling. It's the same exact thing that is at the core of oppression of women, colored, gendered, or whatever-ed groups.

And while I've not voted conservative in quite some time, I'm going to have to sit and think more about these cries about the new "conservative" party. I know a lot of people there, and they are generally just people trying to make their way through the world and wouldn't directly harm anyone. But I do see that many of the things they support do indirectly harm people.

So how do you get these people with legitimate personal concerns, who don't feel that the alternative party is even talking to their concerns, to stop supporting the party that talks to their personal concerns while simultaneously stomping all over "public" concerns?

This is why I don't have a career in politics... I like "simple" problems.
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LordBaal

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48331 on: May 09, 2022, 06:32:21 am »

In the end the best way to have less abortions is more education, access to contraceptive methods, more education, not making it illegal, not forcing doctors to perform them, more education and gigan nijna robots battles.
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Frumple

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48332 on: May 09, 2022, 07:10:05 am »

Yes just what we need, more executive orders to bypass Congress.  You know how you get an authoritarian state? Executive Orders.
I mean, you know how you get one much, much faster? A coup. Remember what happened not too long ago and was supported by folks on a certain wing of our political spectrum all the way up to swaths of that congress, the spouse of a SCOTUS judge, and the literal president? That up and down that line show every indication of being willing to try again the exact moment they think it's a good time?

Short form, if you're worried about that, you've got a much, much larger concern than executive orders, right now, and it's called the GOP and pretty much everyone aligned with them, who are actively working towards an authoritarian takeover and either entirely okay with that or incapable of figuring out what they're doing.

Quote
And while I've not voted conservative in quite some time, I'm going to have to sit and think more about these cries about the new "conservative" party. I know a lot of people there, and they are generally just people trying to make their way through the world and wouldn't directly harm anyone. But I do see that many of the things they support do indirectly harm people.

So how do you get these people with legitimate personal concerns, who don't feel that the alternative party is even talking to their concerns, to stop supporting the party that talks to their personal concerns while simultaneously stomping all over "public" concerns?
There's some success with personal, one on one interaction over a long period of time. It's risky on several different levels (because let me tell you from personal experience, a lot of those folks you're saying are just trying to make their way through the world are incredibly capable of various sorts of much more direct harm than you're thinking, under the right circumstances, such as a black person courting their kids, an immigrant moving into the neighborhood, or finding their children are some form of lgbt) and likely enough to just not work, but it's possible to do if you're willing to take on that tremendous amount of time and often enough danger.

... on a wide scale level, you can't. It sucks to say, but practically people particularly attached to the GOP are lost to communication. Most of these folks are hateful shits about one subject or another, and are generally sunk deep into a propaganda sphere being propagated and maintained by shitsacks that are even worse, one that blankets their entire community from news to radio. It's effectively impossible to break that under the constraints the US is under. You'd have to be able to kill Fox and its ilk, Sinclair, enforce libel and whatnot en masse on public radio in a way that would be a blatant 1A violation (possibly manageable due to this shit being a stochastic terrorism breeding chamber, but let me tell you it'd have anyone worried about actual authoritarianism), break the back of all the voter suppression and intimidation coming out of the US conservative political machines, and things of that nature.

The GOP and conservative politicians in general are pretty damn unpopular in this country with somewhere between a majority to a supermajority of the population. You just have to figure out a way to make that matter in a political system that is viciously engineered to favor anti-democratic rightwing extremists, which is damn difficult when the system you're trying to work with is rigged as hell in their favor.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2022, 07:19:37 am by Frumple »
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Cthulhu

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48333 on: May 09, 2022, 11:18:38 am »

You're right, the party that stole the election in 2000, won without popular vote in 2016, tried to overturn the election in 2021, and is currently attacking voting rights across the country while using the supreme court to strike down policies with huge popular support isnt the undemocratic one, it's the other guys.  Come on man.

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wierd

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48334 on: May 09, 2022, 12:07:07 pm »

No no.

It's:

"But abortions make BABY JESUS cry! AND TERRORISTS can come RIGHT IN over that Mexican border! And the MEXICANS are STEALING American Jobs!"


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McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48335 on: May 09, 2022, 12:08:20 pm »

So... what do you want to do about it? Complaining doesn't do much. I mean yes the current GOP and its supporters is going down a path I don't like.  All I can do is discuss with my sphere of influence, vote against the GOP, and give support to non-GOP causes.
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EuchreJack

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48336 on: May 09, 2022, 01:09:48 pm »

Everyone lives in echo chambers of one sort or other.

As for the abortion issue, I attended a Catholic institution, so I KNOW the anti-abortion argument.
It has nothing to do with making Baby Jesus cry. In their eyes, the unborn fetus is a baby the same as a born child is a baby.
Ergo, by that logic, Abortion is outright Murder.  Baby Killing.

I still grapple with the abortion question myself, although being a guy its really none of my concern. It is NOT a trivial matter.

wierd

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48337 on: May 09, 2022, 01:15:39 pm »

The tradcath and fundiprot angles are not conserved, but both inhabit the religious sphere of thought.


The fundiprots are the ones railing about baby jesus crying. (they outnumber the tradcaths. A thing that makes the tradcaths sad pandas.)

See for instance, this religious testimonial page.


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On the drive home I was consumed with guilt and regret. I cried the whole way home. Ironically, it also poured rain the entire night. I felt like Jesus was crying for what I had done.

They both assert that an embryo of mere seconds age is a baby, but the fundiprots go for the tearjerking, and claims of jesus's tears.

« Last Edit: May 09, 2022, 01:23:03 pm by wierd »
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Frumple

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48338 on: May 09, 2022, 01:26:53 pm »

So... what do you want to do about it? Complaining doesn't do much. I mean yes the current GOP and its supporters is going down a path I don't like.  All I can do is discuss with my sphere of influence, vote against the GOP, and give support to non-GOP causes.
That's about all most folks can do, really. Vote the scum out, give succor to their enemies as you can, and to the extent you're able counter their propaganda horseshit in your personal life.

More than that takes organization beyond what you're probably wise attempting online, given the US's traditional hostility to non-conservative groups, but if interested you're probably best off finding active protest and/or community action groups and getting involved and networking with them. Just, y'know, be careful, for all sorts of reasons from grifters to state sanctioned brutality :-\
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EuchreJack

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48339 on: May 09, 2022, 01:49:53 pm »

Eh, I actually advocate for changing the GOP from within.

Vector

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48340 on: May 09, 2022, 01:56:14 pm »

I did want to say that making Jesus cry or him having feelings about you/doing things for you in particular is almost exclusively an Evangelical thing in the US. The risk of an abortion in Catholicism is sin, and the reason why you care about it is because your Catholic Guilt Trip Module that was carefully and elaborately installed through the years will make you want to do things like mortify your flesh.

In Catholicism, the consequence of being bad is being bad, which will make you feel bad because you caused suffering like was caused to the holy Jesus Christ who suffered for YOUR sins oh god oh why oh why did I do the thing. And maybe a little more time in purgatory, but by far the most important thing is the breach in ethics and the overdeveloped part of your emotional system dedicated to unhappy emotions.

If abortion makes anyone cry, it's gonna be Mary, Saint of Unexpected Pregnancies. But she's not really gonna cry because she's a dead woman and/or a bunch of statues. The problem is that you're behaving in a way that is unworthy of her sacrifice and example, not that she's gonna feel sad.

She's in heaven! She's NOT HERE to feel things about you. That's kind of the point. And as for God, he works in mysterious ways and has a plan for you that occasionally you think you know about after taking a really deep breath of the hallucinogenic incense on Sundays while the priests rant at you next to their terrifying mass of candles, stone vaults, and holy light. But God doesn't have "feelings" about you. God is much bigger than you and your particular problems. Jesus might have cared while he was still here but human beings killed him, didn't they -- so now no one on earth and heaven, except perhaps the priest or your mother, really cares. Figure out your shit.
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Vector

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48341 on: May 09, 2022, 01:56:58 pm »

Eh, I actually advocate for changing the GOP from within.

I advocate for this too, it's just that a trans sleeper agent is going to have a particularly hard time with that.

double-post intentional.
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LordBaal

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48342 on: May 09, 2022, 03:49:02 pm »

No no.

It's:

"But abortions make BABY JESUS cry! AND TERRORISTS can come RIGHT IN over that Mexican border! And the MEXICANS are STEALING American Jobs!"

Left in Spanish on purpose.
Spoiler: Traslation (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: May 09, 2022, 03:52:41 pm by LordBaal »
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I'm curious as to how a tank would evolve. Would it climb out of the primordial ooze wiggling it's track-nubs, feeding on smaller jeeps before crawling onto the shore having evolved proper treds?
My ship exploded midflight, but all the shrapnel totally landed on Alpha Centauri before anyone else did.  Bow before me world leaders!

Cthulhu

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48343 on: May 09, 2022, 03:54:57 pm »

So... what do you want to do about it? Complaining doesn't do much. I mean yes the current GOP and its supporters is going down a path I don't like.  All I can do is discuss with my sphere of influence, vote against the GOP, and give support to non-GOP causes.

I gave a suggestion thats entirely within the president's legal powers and mandate and you said it was creeping authoritarianism
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EuchreJack

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #48344 on: May 09, 2022, 05:05:55 pm »

So... what do you want to do about it? Complaining doesn't do much. I mean yes the current GOP and its supporters is going down a path I don't like.  All I can do is discuss with my sphere of influence, vote against the GOP, and give support to non-GOP causes.

I gave a suggestion thats entirely within the president's legal powers and mandate and you said it was creeping authoritarianism

And McTraveller was right.  Two wrongs don't make right.

I would argue as to the "entirely within the President's Legal Powers" bit.  It's just that the Supreme Court hasn't bothered to stop it, yet.
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