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[EuchreJack]

Other Conservative Justices: "Yay, let's overturn Roe vs. Wade!"

Chief Justice Roberts:

[EuchreJack]

Remember this old joke:
"What do you call an Attorney with a very low IQ?"

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

"Your Honor"

[delphonso]

I wonder how much effort would be needed to convince republicans that LGBT actually stands for Love God Ban Taxes, so they'll vote pro-LGBT.
Two or three Twitter posts might be enough.

Q stands for...Q.

[MaxTheFox]

I am very conflicted about abortion. I think it's okay if the fetus has severe genetic abnormalities, or was conceived by rape or incest. Otherwise it's iffy to me. I can see both sides, I understand why it would be banned or allowed AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO AGREE WITH ARGH.

[martinuzz]

It's a woman's right to decide over her own body.
Forbidding a woman to have an abortion is not much different from rape or any #MeToo behaviour

[MaxTheFox]

It's a woman's right to decide over her own body.
Forbidding a woman to have an abortion is not much different from rape or any #MeToo behaviour

That's one take on it, but then there's "life begins at conception". That is where most pro-life rhetoric comes from. I don't really agree but at least I understand it.

[LordBaal]

The best solutuon would be, as always, education, education on how to plan your sexual life and easy access to anticonceptive methods to avoid unwanted pregnancies (and STD while we are at it) so abortions aren't mostly needed in the first place.

I feel very much about like Max, not really confortable with unless is medically needed or the pregnancy is product of rape, but then again before the development is too ahead. Is a delicate issue and blank banning or banalizing it is not the answer.

What I heard of most people headstrong against it in all forms is that some people seem to banalize it and present it just as another anticonceptive method or try to push to high stages of pregnancy abortion (even up to the moment of birth wich is just plain murder).

The whole issue is a digrace for people on both spectrums and for the poor kids being murdered or brought up to families that do not want then.

And while gestation happens inside the woman's body, at a certain point we are sure there's abother body inside her. I'm honestly not the most impartial person here. And can't speak for anyone but myself, but holding my baby for the first time in my arms changed a lot of things for me.

[Grim Portent]

I'll point out that the less restrictions countries have on abortions the lower their abortion rate actually is. Granted this usually comes with lots of proper sex education and easy access to contraception, and there's an additional correlation between wealth and reduced abortion rates.


I personally consider abortion to be equivalent to taking someone who's in a permanent vegetative state off of life support, the individual is alive, but they aren't a person by any sensible definition. A brain dead comatose person is a 'was person', the fetus is a 'could be person', neither has the moral or ethical value of an 'is person'. Arguably the comatose person is more a person than the fetus is, despite being dead in the most important ways.

[None]

Egh, as always:

1) Late stage abortions make up a tiny fraction of all the ones that happen, and no, it's not just done on a whim, especially since carrying a child is an incredible strain on the body
2) The fetus has never had a goddamn thought in its existence
3) Arguing about 'when' it's okay takes away from the fact that it needs to be okay or people who have thoughts, families, histories, emotions, and the will to live, will die.
4) Abortions are traumatic as is and the stigma does not leave it a choice out of convenience
5) Parent and child can both end up miserable if the child cannot be afforded or it is unwanted, and this leads to trauma for everyone
6) To the above, 64% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck, and forcing a child onto these Americans will only further strain them and entrench them in poverty
7) Abortions won't stop if they're made illegal, they'll just get more dangerous, see above three points
8 ) We've already got the largest percentage of the world's prison population, let's not add to that, especially after Texas took someone to court for a miscarriage
9) Abortion is sometimes a medical necessity and those telling you that you can't get one have no interest in making exceptions for any reason. See Texas and ectopic pregnancies.
10) The whole abortion thing only became a working issue a few decades back when the religious right made it a wedge issue, and bandying about when it's okay or should be allowed is just letting them win ground.

You wanna stop it, you make a world where it's no longer necessary. Stop penalizing people capable of childbirth.

[Starver]

10) The whole abortion thing only became a working issue a few decades back when the religious right made it a wedge issue, and bandying about when it's okay or should be allowed is just letting them win ground.

On that, there was a good explanation of his discoveries/interpretation of the raising of the issue, by Jon Ronson, that I find convincing/plausible. Here's a broad summary article that mentions the apparent inception of this particular wedge-issue in just one of its paragraphs, but no doubt actually chasing up the podcast (by whatever method you find works for you) will give you access to the whole narrative on this. And various other issues that have somehow become felevent today, if you care to binge-listsn the whole set.

[MaxTheFox]

Yes I know None, that's why I am mostly pro-choice. I think late-stage abortions should be deadass illegal though, barring extreme circumstances such as the mother's life being threatened. It's basically a baby to me at that point.

[Frumple]

Like... you're basically saying they should be deadass legal with that, though? The mother's life is always threatened by pregnancy. Medical science has done a lot to mitigate that, but it's an inherently dangerous thing that even with what has been managed over the years pretty regularly kills, cripples, or otherwise permanently damages the mother.

[Grim Portent]

There are several countries* with late term abortions being perfectly legal, late term abortions more or less never happen there because by the point you've hit a late term pregnancy people have usually already decided to give birth barring medical complications that force the issue. Now this does once again go hand in hand with a robust healthcare system, so people can prevent unwanted pregnancies or notice them early on and make the decision then.

*Most notably Canada, which has an abortion be legal at any time for any reason. You could abort a baby a week before it's due date and it's legally fine, provided you can find a doctor who's ok with performing it.

[MaxTheFox]

Like... you're basically saying they should be deadass legal with that, though? The mother's life is always threatened by pregnancy. Medical science has done a lot to mitigate that, but it's an inherently dangerous thing that even with what has been managed over the years pretty regularly kills, cripples, or otherwise permanently damages the mother.

I thought it was obvious that I meant more threatened than usual. This strawman was uncalled for.

[Rolan7]

Even though we socially accept the normal level of danger for mothers, it's still good to remember it.  Some people's pregnancies are more or less dangerous, like most things in life.
I shared a strange thought today with my mom who's a total LGBTQ ally (well almost.  Better than usual).  Back when Disney responded to Florida's don't-say-gay bill, I made a point of rolling my eyes at the rainbow capitalism.  Even when Florida shot itself in the face to spite Disney, I was reluctant to be appreciative.

Yet when I hear about companies like Uber and, eungh, Amazon offering aid to people going out-of-state for abortion...  I guess I fold.  She wanted to be happy for me that Disney was "supporting" me, and likewise she was delighted to hear (FROM ME!) that these companies are supporting her. 

I guess it's the same sort of thinking that keeps me voting Democrat in hopes that maybe PoC will get a little more justice in this intolerable state of affair.

It's disgusting because it's holding people hostage against a completely immoral threat:  The Republican party, which has absolutely no virtue other than accumulating wealth and swayable votes (the evangelicals and racists).  And yet how can I balance my progressive ideals against a promise of harm reduction by establishment Democrats?

Anyway, vote in the ongoing primaries, please.
It's also worth noting that the Republican Establishment desperately doesn't want to discuss abortion.  That's why their angle is entirely about hunting down the leaker and "bringing them to justice".  Sure there are a few evangelical Republican congresscysts who haven't read a Bible in their life, but Lich McConnell and the serious Republicans hate that this issue is raised.  They'd much rather still be talking about the handful of trans female athletes. 

They are literally trying to hide their agenda.  They won't even let it be discussed in the senate, thanks to the bullshit "filibuster" rules.  (Fuck Joe Manchin again, by the way).

They don't *even* want people having conversations about this.  They want to just force it through as quietly as possible, using a "Supreme Court" stacked by the most anti-American, actively treasonous, ironically womanizing president we've ever had.