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[hector13]

On the flip side, it could also become much more deadly because of it’s now endemic nature resulting from people saying it’s obviously a hoax/engineered so governments can control the population/just a ‘flu/only going to kill people the old and the weak who don’t contribute to society/not worth shutting everything down, etc.

[Micro102]

On the flip side, it could also become much more deadly because of it’s now endemic nature resulting from people saying it’s obviously a hoax/engineered so governments can control the population/just a ‘flu/only going to kill people the old and the weak who don’t contribute to society/not worth shutting everything down, etc.

I'm pretty sure we are already at that point.

[Random_Dragon]

On the flip side, it could also become much more deadly because of it’s now endemic nature resulting from people saying it’s obviously a hoax/engineered so governments can control the population/just a ‘flu/only going to kill people the old and the weak who don’t contribute to society/not worth shutting everything down, etc.

Yeah we're way past that point and we've been past that since 2020. Doesn't help that no sane person would call any of the half-assed measures we've tried anything close to "shutting everything down" either.

[Starver]

Even assuming a virus has a 'goal', in human terms, it would be limited to maximal spread and very little else. Once a host has spread it enough (presumably by a dampened-down initial fatality rate, whilst still evading any antigens) there's no particular selective pressure to not ramp up to full Ebola/Rabies/necrification effects (just practical limits based upon what tricks its evolutionary envelope allows it to employ).

Sure, it can technically settle down to zero (obvious) symptoms, but allow an individual to shed itself upon virtually all daily contacts for the next 30 years without giving them cause to suspect they are all becoming Typhoid Marys. That would accomplish matters, but it'd be as unlikely as the Mr Hyde version to get zero fatalities as part of the mutation that accomplishes this. So you get people dying of rare over-aggressive manifestations of it (or complicatedly co-morbid mixing of illnesses), who would not have done so if we had still worked to not allow even a stealth-Covid the trivial person-jumping potential we know we can largely avert.



There are no easy answers, brethren, sistren and othren. So protective, preventative and reactive measures should be considered as vital (even if less effective, or less obviously effective) for Omicron until... Well, at least until we see Pi, Rho and Sigma (or see them applied to currently pre-VOIs, and maybe thennbecome VOCs) and see if they're also game-changey in a worse way. Or at least justify our better continuing practices continuing.

[Micro102]

In order to have these deadly effects, they need to hijack a lot of cells. And that means lots of viruses. If you have that many viruses in a body, it's more effective for spreading if the virus just continues to make the host cough, rather than just killing the host and dooming the viruses in the body to isolation. I'm pretty sure this is a pattern we see in a lot of viruses.

[Starver]

I shall reword what I said, in case that was in reply to me.

After a (very slightly mutated) virus has managed to do an improved job of passing on its offspring, there's no reason why it would be either less or more deadly in its later phases. Getting a head start and an extended honeymoon period (vs. a version that makes their host think they need a PCR test almost immediately, relatively speaking) it doesn't matter any more what the late-stages of infection look like.

Subtlety and overall lowering of seriousness just 'help' with acceptance and resignation, at our end. I don't think we can count on that double-benefit. It's just an "if we have to have it, let it be that" wishful thinking. Hope for the best, but prepare for the... at least not quite as as happy-shiny, if not in the deepest depths of 'worstness'.

No need to seal yourself in your fully-stocked survivalist bunker, just... don't give up sensible mask-wearing and if you want to jump into mosh-pits, and come out covered with the spit of those you've been mutually spitting at, then accept that this might be incompatible with being in-house Hug-Giver at the local retirement home.


In short: Be alert! Your country needs lerts!

[delphonso]

Subtlety and overall lowering of seriousness just 'help' with acceptance and resignation, at our end.

Yeah, this is important. On average, diseases turn less deadly over time - but there's no reason that must be the case. It's possible for a virus to be silently contagious for 3 weeks then suddenly make blood spray from your ears until you die. That's still a totally viable lifespan. Micro102's right that resource-wise, this won't be selected for often, but it could.

There's still reason for optimism, as most viruses do become less lethal. But it's important to recognize all the long-term effect we see from covid. Even a minimally lethal version could still be quite life-altering.

Anyway, to the original point, Harris and Biden are really doing a great job to tee up a loss next election. You love to see it, folks. Dems gotta dem.

[Micro102]

O yeah I don't mean to suggest that any preventative standards drop, just looking for the silver lining in the cloud.

[lemon10]

Subtlety and overall lowering of seriousness just 'help' with acceptance and resignation, at our end.

Yeah, this is important. On average, diseases turn less deadly over time - but there's no reason that must be the case. It's possible for a virus to be silently contagious for 3 weeks then suddenly make blood spray from your ears until you die. That's still a totally viable lifespan. Micro102's right that resource-wise, this won't be selected for often, but it could.

There's still reason for optimism, as most viruses do become less lethal. But it's important to recognize all the long-term effect we see from covid. Even a minimally lethal version could still be quite life-altering.

Anyway, to the original point, Harris and Biden are really doing a great job to tee up a loss next election. You love to see it, folks. Dems gotta dem.

Viruses killing people is pretty much always bad for their survival from an evolutionary standpoint due to the simple fact that if you kill or significantly hurt people it makes the survivors react to you. Said reactions result in you infecting less people (eg. family members not touching or interacting with people who are sick, the entire village quarantining). Obviously, not all people will react, but if the disease is bad enough enough people will for it to make a significant difference.

So if two viruses are otherwise identical the one that is less lethal/dangerous will always win out.

The thing is the stuff that makes you sick/die is often stuff that helps the virus in other ways, typically either by making it more infectious or spread faster, or be able to stick around in the body longer or even the simple fact that viruses existing in the body at all will likely trigger an immune response which makes you feel sick. Sometimes the most dangerous stuff is even core to the viruses function and thus can't ever be removed or the virus just stops working.

So its kind of a contest between lethality and sickness (bad) and the beneficial things that cause the lethality and sickness. Old viruses are already optimized for this by long periods of evolution, but viruses new to humans are optimized for different species, and thus can experience some radical changed when they go over to humans.

It isn't clear exactly where Covid-19 is on the spectrum, but it seems likely to me that its currently more lethal than is healthy for it in the long term.
---
Of course that's ignoring the other selector of less lethal viruses which is the virus just killing everyone easily susceptible to it (a la black death), which makes it milder in later times since most people that got properly sick from it is now dead.

[None]

The local republican gubernatorial candidate (more accurately, one of their sponsoring groups) got a hold of my old school email somehow and has inundated me with with spam asking me why I haven't accepted my Founding Membership and Donated $50 Dollars to stop Tyrannical Liberal Governor, complete with "Do Not Forward, Super Urgent!" and "Last chance this hour to donate!" bullshit. Comes through daily. Same language Trump or his allies used to milk his constituents of money, except for the ridiculous contribution matching stuff.

Oh, and the election is eleven months out. Plenty of time to grift. Gross.

I really like the part where tyranny is a mask mandate that the police collectively decided not to enforce because law & justice is an elephant.

[MrRoboto75]

Meanwhile, the police literally died of covid 🤔

[nenjin]

No, you see, it was the lack of freedoms that killed them.

[martinuzz]

That must have been some damn hard armorpiercing lack of freedoms.

[delphonso]

The local republican gubernatorial candidate (more accurately, one of their sponsoring groups) got a hold of my old school email somehow and has inundated me with with spam asking me why I haven't accepted my Founding Membership and Donated $50 Dollars to stop Tyrannical Liberal Governor, complete with "Do Not Forward, Super Urgent!" and "Last chance this hour to donate!" bullshit. Comes through daily. Same language Trump or his allies used to milk his constituents of money, except for the ridiculous contribution matching stuff.

I've been getting these too. They must have gotten voting records, because I haven't used this email in the United States any other time.

If you flag them as spam enough times, we can train the algorithims to recognize it as a scam.

[martinuzz]

I've been getting these too. They must have gotten voting records, because I haven't used this email in the United States any other time.

Isn't that a criminal offense, breaching voter confidentiality?