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[Duuvian]

I would suggest that both sides are partially wrong due to their zeal to see those they may not approve of respectively punished harshly while those they are more sympathetic to would not. Judicial Impartiality, though difficult to define according to that Florida Law Review link, is part of due process in a courtroom.

The following sort of effort is what both sides should consider instead, looking across the spectrum and not picking out certain types of crime; or else (in theory; I'm not sure it would occur but times have changed) R might decrease sentences for what they sympathize with as over penalization and D what they do rather than reform based on the need for reform.

(federal; each state has their own statutes and would require state rather than federal legislatures to change)
https://www.americanbar.org/advocacy/governmental_legislative_work/priorities_policy/criminal_justice_system_improvements/federalsentencingreform/

Here is another one:

https://www.aclu.org/issues/smart-justice/prosecutorial-reform

[Vector]

Hey, sorry but ... both sides of what? Which case are we talking about rn?

[Duuvian]

The two sides disagreeing on this fine forums thread, and I wasn't referring to a specific case. If I would have refered to a specific recent case in my last post, it would have weakened my attempted point that the argument was missing a solution that I thought I might be able to suggest, and I didn't reference any because my own personal biases on the outcomes of the cases in question would have then tainted that conclusion in the eyes of one party or both.

Does that make sense? I honestly am not sure myself, but it feels to me like abstaining from opinion on a specific is a way to do things sometimes when trying to convince two disparate opinions on a general third option.

[Moddan]

A bold statement in these highly polarised times. As Bertram Russel put it, I think: "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."

[Bumber]

Whether or not he is a member, Rittenhouse has proudly posed with Proud Boys. I know you don't consider white nationalism or race-based violence terrorism, but they're a terrorist organization.

The Proud Boys have not been declared a terrorist organization by the US government (only the Canadian Proud Boys by Canada.) There's no comparison to ISIS.

Even if the government did consider them a terrorist organization, we're still left with the dubious assertion that a black or middle-eastern man who shoots 3 people in Kenosha and then surrenders himself at a police station won't live to stand trial once it comes out that they're pals with ISIS members. (Let's assume that the black/middle-eastern man doesn't approach the police on the scene and get turned away, because that's implausible on both sides, and heads directly to the Antioch police station.)


In more Fox News interview news, Rittenhouse stated that although he supported Donald Trump because he's pro-police, Rittenhouse otherwise prefers Andrew Yang.

[LordBaal]

Happy thanksgiving to all of you here that are/live in the US.

[martinuzz]

I have never understood thanksgiving. It's like... Christmas, but one month early or something?

[Bumber]

I have never understood thanksgiving. It's like... Christmas, but one month early or something?

It's a harvest festival, so the only gifts you get are food.

[LordBaal]

And what else would you need to have a very nice day besides food!!!

[Starver]

Thanksgiving was a festival acceptable to those who thought celebrating Christmas and even Easter to be beyond the pale. Although the first documented US* Thanksgiving was on a December 4th and the Pilgrim version may have been influenced essentially by Oktoberfest celebrations, so it's a mishmash of conflicting traditions (including bringing the Turkey in from the Canadian tradition of the festival, IIRC).

* - edit: As-yet-to-be, of course.

[LordBaal]

Its loads of food, that's awesome!

[SOLDIER First]

The Proud Boys have not been declared a terrorist organization by the US government (only the Canadian Proud Boys by Canada.) There's no comparison to ISIS.

Even if the government did consider them a terrorist organization, we're still left with the dubious assertion that a black or middle-eastern man who shoots 3 people in Kenosha and then surrenders himself at a police station won't live to stand trial once it comes out that they're pals with ISIS members. (Let's assume that the black/middle-eastern man doesn't approach the police on the scene and get turned away, because that's implausible on both sides, and heads directly to the Antioch police station.)

Because, as we all know, the United States government has final and ultimate authority on what does and does not make a terrorist organization. Doesn't matter if a group promotes and perpetuates terrorism unless ol' Uncle Sam gives his say-so.

[martinuzz]

So, thanksgiving is kinda like sinterklaas, but without the not-santa dressed up as santa?

[Frumple]

Because, as we all know, the United States government has final and ultimate authority on what does and does not make a terrorist organization. Doesn't matter if a group promotes and perpetuates terrorism unless ol' Uncle Sam gives his say-so.

The US doesn't appear to have an explicit designation for domestic terror groups like it does for non-domestic ones, for what that's worth (there's a questionable amount of surprise there considering what our primary sources of domestic terrorism are, but eh). The proud boys are "just" an extremist domestic terror threat, so far as the official stuff goes. Same sort of shit as the KKK, right down to what it claims to be instead of a white supremacist terrorist organization.

Interesting to hear they've also been recognized as an international terror group with the canadian branch being officially pegged, though.

At least bumber's not trying to contest that a non-white terrorism linked vigilante that did make it to court after gunning people down in the street wouldn't have much of a chance of being cleared of all charges anymore, I guess. Still having trouble understanding the words "fairly likely", but it's getting there.

[martinuzz]

I could have sworn that I read a few months ago that the Proud Boys had been officially declared a terrorist organistation.

Perhaps only by the EU then and not by the US. Don't be surprised if we throw bombs at your country though for harboring terrorist groups.