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[Starver]

Yes, that's the other approach, and so totally surprising that China should plump for the "Tell you what, we shall grab your data, know absolutely everything about you" solution...


There's QR codes here. I think their purpose is to act as "This device has seen..." markers (should a location pop up on an infected person's voluntarily reported recent activities, it would be as present in the 'alert' package for any other device that needs to consider its owners exposure levels).

Though I absolutely don't know for sure. For all I know, the guys at GCHQ are raising their game above even that of the almighty Google. But it's how I'd do it in an optimally privacy-retaining way. (And worry about people like me, who just have never felt the need to participate. Plus all those other people entirely incapable of it. Along with them, I willingly signed myself into the contact book maintained at the hairdressers'/barbers'-shop, as necessary, trusting that those details would be used if, and only if, the need became apparent. Nothing came of it and the last visit there didn't even entail such a record. For good or ill...)


Sorry, consider this an entirely theoretical musing, and general rambling, probably more suited to being rehashed on the COVID thread.  What new thing is happening in US politics at the moment? Is it bigger than the German elections or the UK fuel crisis or the generic ongoing situation or strife in too many other places to mention?

[Iduno]

What new thing is happening in US politics at the moment?

AOC was courting the far-right by explaining why the Democrats had to support genocide in Palestine, and it turns out that just means that the far-right and the entire left both hate her now. That's pretty hilarious and unsurprising.

[Rolan7]

I'd like to know more about that.  I tried searching, but just found news about her voting "present" on a (absolutely disgusting) billion dollar donation of my taxpayer money to Israel's "Iron Dome" project.  She also spoke out against the bill and the human rights violations of Israel.

I'm not trying to be snarky though, if she did something awful I 100% want to know about it.  Lionizing people is a brain trap I do my best to avoid.  If it *is* about that bill, it's notable that she voted neutrally instead of against, despite her rhetoric (and tears or whatever).

Edit: Okay I caught myself up on the news and wow yeah, people are being really hard on her about that vote.  I really wasn't being sarcastic, and now I'm just kinda dumbfounded.  I'd love to see more discussion of how shitty it is that we did this, and that the vote was close to unanimous.  So many Democrats supported this shit.  AOC is one of the only people who *didn't*!

[The_Explorer]

Honestly kinda confused why because of trumptard..suddenly hate toward israel is now a thing for both some democrats and obviously the far right nazis hate israel but that isn't new and why they voted for trump to begin with (since he hates israel just liked their money)...but its like democrats took a playbook of the far right nazis to hate israel (and no I don't mean german nazis from the past, I mean modern day nazis that want to destroy israel and dismantle it at any moment. And yes israel has many religions and cultures, but the far right just sees israel as "jewish" so automatically hate them). But some democrats seem to want to go along with this by defunding them or even outright saying to also dismantle it.

I guess trump just normalized it? Cause I never saw so much hate toward them until trump became president. Any time something happens with israel, there is literal nazis on twitter calling to destroy it and saying some pretty disgusting stuff, though I noticed many do get (shadow)banned, but it seems like its becoming the norm since it dominates the top trending tags until twitter removes it.

Not to say that israel doesn't do stuff they shouldn't, like bombing citizens (which US has done recently in afghanistan, but doesn't make it right still and I wasn't here to see that topic but no need to go on a whole tyrade of that since its probably been done), but no one calls for US to be defunded over it. Though I think the US military IS the biggest arms dealer within the US and why there are so many guns on the street and the biggest threat to world peace....but...maybe thats a completely other topic.

But with that said, israel kicking anyone who is islamic out of their homes is pretty bad. And I know they have quite a lot of civil unrest there or did but probably still do. But the iron dome is meant to protect from drones, missiles and what not right? Its not actually a weapon but more a "shield"? That is my understanding...if its a weapon that can be used to actually successfully attack...calling it a "dome" seems to be naming something to make it sound better...which...I would then agree to make it an actual defensive tool not a weapon to be funded.

Still, the above does relate to what I see often on reddit and twitter, a movement toward how germany nazi would have likely viewed israel "a jewish state to dismantle" (and this is the nicest way to put it, quite often see some far far nastier things said about israel, despite it being not really that many "jewish" living there in comparison to everyone else. Most of this comes from the far right and trumpers, but sometimes see democrats saying this disgusting stuff...or at least...maybe its far right pretending to be democrats dunno)

(edit)
Also not saying anyone here says anything like that (they'd be banned) or what AOC thinks is like that. Its just a general thing since often see some pretty disgusting things starting to gain traction about israel on twitter/reddit, and not sure why. I think for that part, there is a lot of far right people taking the strategy of pretending to be democrat to plant the "seed" of hate toward israel. But like I said, if the iron dome isn't actually a "dome" (like to protect in a certain radius) but an actual weapon that can be used to attack further than it should, I think it should be pulled back to an actual defensive tool as the name would imply if its being misused.

[Rolan7]

Progressives have been anti-Israel more or less since its creation in 1948.  There are a lot of reasons why conservatives (including so many Democrats) have invested so much money and influence on it.

Christian fanatics like it because they hate Islam, and sometimes because it speeds along end-times prophecies.

Racists support it because it's a racist ethno-state *and* a place they can send our Jews.  (ugh)

Democrat and Republican representatives support it because of our military-industrial complex, and it's an optically "good" way to destabilize and project power into the Middle East.  For all the usual reasons that boil down to money spiced with xenophobia.

On the opposition you have progressives and... just the dumbest hateful idiots imaginable, who think Israel=Jews=Bad and are too stupid to even keep up with Fox News's pro-Israel message.  Trump was pro-Israel despite all the anti-Jewish conspiracies rampant in his fan base.

but no one calls for US to be defunded over it.

Wait can we do this, lets do this!!
But only the military parts.  "Defund The US But Actually Just Redistribute Spending To Infrastructure", much like Defund The Police 

[Random_Dragon]

Israel's political situation seems to get a lot of very weird support AND very weird hate from a wide range of political leanings.

On the one hand, Israel's an important ally to the US. On the other hand there's the long list of warcrimes their government seems to be compelled to commit incessantly. Then you have the fact that the Israeli people have to live with the consequences of their government and military's fuckups, while other people will of course hate the people of Israel simply for existing.

Likewise you've got the fact that Palestine is going to be a political ally to other countries, while on the other hand HAMAS gets into doing shit on the regular as well. And of course you have sympathy for the Palestinian people, while of course you'll have people with islamophone, anti-arab, or what-have-you sentiment.

And there's probably at least a few strongly anti-semitic people who remember what the term actually means and thus can find ample room in their shriveled little hearts to hate every person involved in this entire mess, whether they're the Jewish flavor of Semitic or not.

Personally I feel it reasonable to wish the best for the actual people who get caught up in all this while wishing it was feasible for the people in charge of this mess to get some sense slapped into them, but as with most political clusterfucks these days it's unlikely that any unfucking of governments is going to happen without a negative impact on the people who have to deal with the repercussions of such a thing.

[The_Explorer]

but no one calls for US to be defunded over it.

Wait can we do this, lets do this!!
But only the military parts.  "Defund The US But Actually Just Redistribute Spending To Infrastructure", much like Defund The Police 

I think this is probably the safer one to tackle outside my rant (was kinda upset by what saw on twitter earlier so had to rant away :| but guess thats twitter for you...). But I do strongly belief the US military could be defunded in many ways. Like you pointed out really...imagine how much one can do with the money that goes into the military. Infrastructure as you said, but also environmental projects, schools, better education in areas that have a hard time getting that education (whether its distance or living status or what not), more housing for low income...and well like I said, it be literally less guns being able to be accessed...but really can do a lot with that money that goes into the military. Not just economic and education, but health and science too and space stuff...like actually progressing humanity instead of just "more guns, bigger guns, HUGE GUNS"...

[delphonso]

Racists support it because it's a racist ethno-state *and* a place they can send our Jews.  (ugh)

It bares mentioning that this was the genesis of Israel as a modern nation - the biggest proponents for it were racists who wanted to ship the Jews somewhere else. I think Madagascar was originally on the table as to where.

You'll see people on all sides taking different stances on Israel, because of a mix of motives and knowledge.
The ill-informed have seen Israel as the victim of Islamic terrorism, a modern metropolis in the middle of a wild wasteland.
Others recognize a small amount of Israel's crimes, but consider their progressive values (on topics such as homosexuality) to be enough good to ignore the rest.
Those who are informed but care only about military recognize Israel as the US's testing grounds for weapons and domestic control techniques (I think we all know US police use trainings and equipment developed and "tested" in Israel)
Then those who are informed and don't consider the military to be the US's number one responsibility see Israel as a bully at least and fascist ethno-state at worst.

Then yeah, racists are just gonna...be racist. Or yeah, the doomsday prophecy parts.

This is why it is divisive - because it is easy to pick one of these positions call anyone else a racist. Dems seem to fall in the "progressive values" and military pile, while Republicans seem to mostly be in the military pile. Of course, with a few outliers in the doomsday thing.

[feelotraveller]

In the news, 'bout best murica, related to censorship, and the military-industrial complex (all in want of giving a spin on an in depth article)... certainly makes for some interesting reading. 

https://news.yahoo.com/kidnapping-assassination-and-a-london-shoot-out-inside-the-ci-as-secret-war-plans-against-wiki-leaks-090057786.html

Totally unsurprised that virtually no-one's actually talking about it.

[Random_Dragon]

To be fair, Assange seriously shot himself in the foot while he was staying in Russia mid-2016. It made it openly clear he was working with Russian intelligence at the time and helped with the "but emails ree" debacle during a very sensitive time.

And how's he rewarded for that? By the US going from an administration that at least tried to keep the CIA from pulling its usual bullshit to one that actively enabled it, while alienating a lot of people who would've been in support of his objectives previously.

[feelotraveller]

To correct your misunderstanding(s) Assange hasn't been out of London for well over a decade, let alone to Russia.  Nor did the CIA lose it over the 'emails' shenanigans (which admittedly smell pretty much every which way) but rather only when their 'Vault 7' suite of hacking tools were obtained by WikiLeaks - some of which were then made public.

The article is not about Assange or WikiLeaks but rather the response to them by the US government (or successive governments if you prefer).  For example:

U.S. officials disagreed over how to interdict Assange if he attempted to escape. A proposal to initiate a car crash to halt Assange’s vehicle was not only a “borderline” or “extralegal” course of action — “something we’d do in Afghanistan, but not in the U.K.” — but was also particularly sensitive since Assange was likely going to be transported in a Russian diplomatic vehicle, said a former national security official.

Not to mention the consideration giving to outright assassination (of a Australian in the UK, no less...).  All this for truthfully disclosing bonafide documents.  So much for informed public debate, right?  Or are we so far gone to think that no one in a democracy needs to know what their government is actually getting up to?  Something, something, informed consent...  This is a bit of a glimpse of what lengths the previous administration were willing to go to (and/or to consider going to) in order to keep its own institutionally corrupt workings from reaching the light of day.

[None]

Nor did the CIA lose it over the 'emails' shenanigans (which admittedly smell pretty much every which way) but rather only when their 'Vault 7' suite of hacking tools were obtained by WikiLeaks - some of which were then made public.
[...]

Not to mention the consideration giving to outright assassination (of a Australian in the UK, no less...).  All this for truthfully disclosing bonafide documents.

so is it planned murder over the vault 7 tools or the other stuff

[Starver]

To correct your misunderstanding(s) Assange hasn't been out of London for well over a decade, let alone to Russia.

I think the (not difficult) mix-up being made there is conflating Assange with Edward Snowden. HTH.

[voliol]

It’s hard to make out the CIA doing bad stuff^TM as news. It just doesn’t feel like it... sadly, I should add.

[Random_Dragon]

To correct your misunderstanding(s) Assange hasn't been out of London for well over a decade, let alone to Russia.  Nor did the CIA lose it over the 'emails' shenanigans (which admittedly smell pretty much every which way) but rather only when their 'Vault 7' suite of hacking tools were obtained by WikiLeaks - some of which were then made public.

Oh right, it was Snowden that's in Russia if I recall.