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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4206378 times)

LordBaal

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46035 on: August 19, 2021, 06:57:08 pm »

Dude, girl schools are being converted to religious sites (and no woman allowed) and we are talking about Taliban, did you see people falling from planes trying to leave the country because talibans were getting into power?

You can't sugar coat this in any way form or shape.
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Frumple

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46036 on: August 19, 2021, 07:03:09 pm »

North Carolina certainly sounds like a fun place.
It's generally better than the other carolina, for what staggeringly little it's worth!
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martinuzz

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46037 on: August 19, 2021, 07:06:01 pm »

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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

scriver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46038 on: August 19, 2021, 07:15:04 pm »

Does your state not allow girls who are married/have children to continue in high school?

I went through high school with a girl who had a baby.  She had to drop back a year and stuggled somewhat but she got through.

Well, I'm happy for that gal who managed to balance the two (or three, with trying to get enough income to support everything); my friend did not. Caring for a baby is an overwhelming undertaking, especially for a child. And it takes priority over schooling.

Yeah, I'm going to assume that what with how tiring having a small child is the "education -> no teenage pregnancy" has the causation of that correlation backwards

If we are talking about a girl who is already pregnant or even a mother then it is moot - can't prevent what has already happened.  So why would you even raise the point?  Whether the girl can still get an education or not comes down to other, mainly societal, factors.  Among these is the acceptance, or not, of teen mothers in educational settings.

However if we are talking about potential teen mothers then education very much matters:
https://news.un.org/en/story/2017/07/561242-education-critical-preventing-adolescent-pregnancy-underscores-un-agency
Quote
Girls with higher levels of education are less likely to have an early and unintended pregnancy, the United Nations education agency said today, launching a new technical paper with recommendations for the education sector.

“[For] each additional year of education, [there is] a 10 per cent reduction in fertility,” said UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) in a news release, announcing the paper.
(parantheses in the cited source - and yep I just grabbed a headliner close to hand, please feel free to do your own research)

Or are you meaning to join in the chorus of "hrr drr it's uselss educating girls when they are just going to get married or pregnant anyways" that we've seen recently in this thread (much to my sorrow).  Shit even if they have to drop out of school there's a benefit in them being able to read to their children, or write someone a letter, or... 

[Apologies to our Ameripol readers we hope to return to our usual shitposting shortly.]

I'm saying that for each additional year of education, that's a year they didn't get pregnant and had to quit school. That adds up to more education -> less teen pregnancy. But it's not the more education that means less pregnancy, it's the absence of pregnancies that means more education. Education does not prevent teen pregnancies -- teen pregnancies prevent education.
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Love, scriver~

None

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46039 on: August 19, 2021, 07:30:07 pm »

No, I don't have answers about what to do about the Taliban or how to encourage that the youth under them get the education they deserve, I'm some shmuck on the internet rubbernecking while world leaders, ambassadors, humanitarians, and journalists scope it out. I am saying nothing about bombing, hijab blokes (???), providing/refusing international aid, or whichever other rhetorical question you'd like to throw. I have concerns, but not answers.

What we do have is their track record and the opinions of local Afghani leadership (particularly women), including this mayor who is certain she will be killed.

 I'm sorry I cannot/will not feel optimistic of this. This, however, is not a criticism of the quality of education women should receive.
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Vector

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46040 on: August 19, 2021, 07:45:52 pm »

Education also prevents teen pregnancies, primarily by giving women other ways to spend their time and define their self-worth than babby, and also making it so that they don't have to effectively get work as a wife & mother. It's one of those feedback loops that builds and builds.

Let me put it this way. Ya want yer girl's first job to not be being a Mom? You gotta train her with skills for other jobs, because I can guarantee you that from the age of 9 or so, if not sooner, a bunch of older women have been teaching her how to be a mom.

Help her get work as something other than a babysitter. Make sure she gets paid for that work. Make sure that if she dates a guy, not only does she have access to contraception and whatnot, but she also has a sense of her own value outside of her attachment to him and her ability to provide children.

And if she does get pregnant, make sure that there is a route back into education, so that, again, she doesn't just get stuck on team babby-babby-babby.


As a note I have known women who said that they wished, instead of being sent to college, they had been told about the joys of being a wife and mother and just gotten married at age 18. To be fair this woman I am thinking of is an age thirties-ish queer evangelical Christian. But they do exist.

The point is not to force women to become scientists if they don't want. The point is to make sure that there is always something for them to do, which brings them a sense of value, besides producing with their bodies.


Finally: If the Taliban are saying, "We will allow women to be educated up til age 18," that is a different thing from "we will allow their education up to menarche," which is again a different thing from "we will allow their education provided that they are not married." It could mean so many things. But perhaps something to notice is that all of these are what is called a "negative reward" in psychology. "We will not prevent women and girls to be educated up until such and such an event" is different from "we affirm the right of women and girls to pursue education and will facilitate it as much as possible under our regime."

I'm not interested in arguing about it, primarily because our own education system is so fucked that although I very sincerely hope that Afghanistan becomes a good, pleasant place to live and people stop bombing the shit out of it, I also know that those in glass houses should not throw stones, even if the other dude's house is all-glass as opposed to your own half-glass domain.
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feelotraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46041 on: August 19, 2021, 09:06:21 pm »

For what it's worth the Taliban have said:

Quote from Tuesday but policy had been previously announced months ago at international conferences.
"[Women] can get education from primary to higher education -- that means university."

At the press conference on Wednesday there was this interaction - question asked by a female western journalist:
"Hello, my name is [INAUDIBLE]. I'm with Al Jazeera English. I want to talk to you about women's rights and girls' rights. There's concern about whether women will be allowed to work, that girls will still go to school. What assurances can you give to women and girls that their rights will be protected?"
There was then a conversation, presumably in Pashto(?), between the Taliban spokesperson and his translator.  The spokesperson made a statement (in Pashto?). Then the translator said in English
"Women will be afforded all their rights, whether it is in work or other activities, because women are a key part of society. And we are guaranteeing all the rights within the limits of Islam."
The kicker leaves the meaning of the whole rather undefined, at least for me, but I'm pretty sure if if was about the rights of men the same rider would be in place.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2021, 09:10:29 pm by feelotraveller »
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StrawBarrel

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46042 on: August 20, 2021, 01:56:04 am »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Exnb-Tdh0bQ 'Bomb' suspect near Capitol surrenders to police
A bit worrisome to see some extremism flaring up.
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Kagus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46043 on: August 20, 2021, 02:20:31 am »

As far as education = fewer teen pregnancies/child marriages goes, I certainly agree. ...in areas where those girls are allowed any sort of agency over their own lives. Otherwise, the effect gets significantly dampened.

Who knows? Maybe the Taliban will actually turn over a new leaf and won't push Afghanistan into being a fundamentalist shithole. That "Within the limits of Islam" quote is the frightening one, because their interpretation of Islam has not historically been known to be a pleasant one.

North Carolina certainly sounds like a fun place.
Anywho: Far right terrorist rocks up to the Library of Congress thinking he's at Congress, threatens to blow it up with explosives in the back of his truck.

Oh for-...

Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46044 on: August 20, 2021, 05:49:49 am »

Noting, insofar as Talib promises, that they said they would not victimise those who have worked as translators/liaisons/etc for the coalition.

Even if that's sincere/commited-to-for-the-moment at the top level, it's also proven to be faithless at all kinds of more local levels. (Back to the problem of cell-based resistance[1] that was so useful when it was an oppressed movement.)


[1] Possibly of unhappy bedfellows-of-convenience. Elements with AQ and IS tendencies were mutually against the US/etc occupiers, but if the theoretical painless Taliban rule is to happen they will have to work to avoid internecine conflict between their enabling forces.
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Bumber

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46045 on: August 20, 2021, 07:08:37 am »

https://freebeacon.com/biden-administration/biden-state-dept-moved-to-abolish-crisis-response-bureau-months-before-taliban-takeover-of-afghanistan/

... do note the daily fail is about the exact opposite of reliable.

Video doesn't lie. Hunter recorded himself telling a prostitute about it (because he likes to record his sexual encounters.) Daily Mail shared the video from his laptop.

Hunter himself isn't particularly reliable, but that's another matter.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2021, 07:16:16 am by Bumber »
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dragdeler

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46046 on: August 20, 2021, 08:11:42 am »

a
« Last Edit: August 21, 2024, 06:20:25 am by dragdeler »
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martinuzz

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46047 on: August 20, 2021, 08:43:56 am »

Very powerful text today in the 'letters from readers' part of my newspaper.
I'll take the liberty to translate.

"No-one

The Taliban is right, when they say "No-one has to fear us".
Because in Afghanistan, a woman is No-one.
Which is why No-one resides under a light blue burqa, to make her appearance already blend with the sky.
No-one is forbidden to go to school.
A man can buy a No-one for  two sheep, and a man rapes No-one.
No-one prepares his food, and his mother is No-one.
When No-one becomes Someone, they will stone her out of life into No-One's Land.
So, indeed, No-one has to fear the Taliban.


What would have happened if we had trained a women's army the past 20 years?"


original text:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


https://www.volkskrant.nl/columns-opinie/onze-houding-met-drugs-heeft-de-taliban-aan-de-macht-geholpen~b54ce321/
« Last Edit: August 20, 2021, 09:39:52 am by martinuzz »
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

Frumple

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46048 on: August 20, 2021, 08:50:15 am »

You do what you want recreationally,no qualms with that. I just want to point out that the electable one raised a little shit who cant keep care of his stuff. Dude would probably rather order a new laptop than get his wallet if he can't tip the bellboy with a swipe or a signature.
Hell drag, near as I can recall and tell from checking, we still don't even know if "hunter's laptop" even exists, just that some laptop was maybe (don't think we actually know for sure on that, even, due to the only public confirmation I could find being pictures shown by bloody fox) given to a blind computer repairman (who apparently made copies of the harddrive for himself and eventually gave one to a friggin' tabloid newspaper, but who actually knows) under hunter's name was handed off to the FBI.

Far as I'm aware not a single person more credible than a tortiseshell cat's left nut has confirmed the existence (especially as actually being hunter's) or contents of the purported machine to the general public. Meanwhile this latest crap from a UK tabloid puts the lost hunter biden laptop count at, what, three, four? More? The number seems to grow every time there's a slow news day.
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Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #46049 on: August 20, 2021, 09:01:48 am »

No-one has to go to school.
Without attempting translation of my own, to see if this was meant, it'd surely be "No-one does not have to go to school" or "No-one is forbidden...".

Right now it's just the single-negative, rather than the double one that makes more sense in the literal/Polyphemian context.
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