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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4221335 times)

hector13

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44775 on: April 11, 2021, 10:01:56 pm »

The wall construction hasn’t been paid for, else extra costs wouldn’t be incurred for machines sitting idle, ‘cause the contractors would already have been compensated for their costs, surely?

(don’t call me Shirley)

Like, I’m struggling to see why this is noteworthy. Is it just because of the way a two party system works that when one party takes a stance on a contentious issue the other party is assumed to have the opposite stance? ‘cause the wall (or whatever you want to call it) is there. It needs to be maintained. It costs money to do that.

Trump’s BS about the wall was just that. It was a vanity project. It’s not like the wall is 10 miles tall to stop planes flying over it, or circumnavigated the globe so people can’t just go round the god damn thing, or just boat across the giant river between Mexico and the US, or even tunnel under it.

But yeah, Biden will be critcised by the Republicans for FAILINGATBORDERSECURITY if he doesn’t build the wall or WASTINGTAXPAYERSMONEY if he cancels the contracts or WHATAHYPOCRITE if he does anything which looks like it might possibly look like construction of a barrier on the border.
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Bumber

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44776 on: April 11, 2021, 10:04:36 pm »

The wall construction hasn’t been paid for, else extra costs wouldn’t be incurred for machines sitting idle, ‘cause the contractors would already have been compensated for their costs, surely?

They're paid for being on standby, since the contract is on pause, not cancelled. They also have to guard their materials that are just sitting about the construction site.

From the article:
Quote
According to the source, the expenditures are required for materials orders placed before the pause and expenses for the cost of equipment sitting idle. When the issuance of a stop work order causes a contractor to idle equipment, they are entitled to be compensated for rental expenses or costs of ownership.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2021, 10:11:18 pm by Bumber »
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hector13

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44777 on: April 11, 2021, 10:09:10 pm »

Yes. You said it was already paid for. It’s not already paid for if they’re still being paid. If it was already paid for, these costs would have been accounted for already, because they’d be the same regardless of whether they were working or not.
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Look, we need to raise a psychopath who will murder God, we have no time to be spending on cooking.

the way your fingertips plant meaningless soliloquies makes me think you are the true evil among us.

Bumber

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44778 on: April 11, 2021, 10:10:31 pm »

Yes. You said it was already paid for. It’s not already paid for if they’re still being paid. If it was already paid for, these costs would have been accounted for already, because they’d be the same regardless of whether they were working or not.

I don't think they've been paid the full amount for completing a wall, but the government is still bound by the contract. They're being compensated extra for having to sit around. Delays = costs.
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Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?

Kagus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44779 on: April 12, 2021, 04:55:19 am »

What earthly reason would he have for trying to complete the wall? I don't get it.

Admittedly it's kind of a shit situation with the parts that are already built... What are you supposed to do, just abandon it and leave it in pieces? Spend however much more on tearing it back down? But being left with only bad options doesn't make finishing the damn thing a good one.

MorleyDev

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44780 on: April 12, 2021, 06:06:03 am »

Sounds like the issue is what to do with parts that are like 90% built but have gaps or whatever where construction isn't finished. As well as differentiating the actually useful parts that would have been done anyway (the fence repairs or detector installation on risk areas) vs the parts that were just ego project. As well as that they have pay the contractors whilst figuring all that out, and that the contracts all will have "cancellation fees" that in the extreme could even make it practically cheaper to have them finish the work on that section.

Meanwhile, American police continue to make things worse. Guy driving away from you at a traffic stop? Better fire on a moving vehicle! Not like there's an option to...get back in your vehicle and pursue or anything. Nope. Gotta go straight to the murder!
« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 06:55:47 am by MorleyDev »
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Iduno

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44781 on: April 12, 2021, 07:25:21 am »

What earthly reason would he have for trying to complete the wall? I don't get it.

Admittedly it's kind of a shit situation with the parts that are already built... What are you supposed to do, just abandon it and leave it in pieces? Spend however much more on tearing it back down? But being left with only bad options doesn't make finishing the damn thing a good one.

Because we're ruled by two groups of very similar rich people. The major difference is one doubles down on their beliefs to get people to vote for them, and the other uses PR to pretend they don't do the same things/it's not their fault when they do those things.
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dragdeler

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44782 on: April 12, 2021, 08:38:07 am »

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« Last Edit: September 16, 2023, 02:22:38 pm by dragdeler »
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Dostoevsky

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44783 on: April 12, 2021, 10:22:18 am »

Perhaps worth noting that Trump's wall plan was only a small portion of the border, and that people are rather easily climbing over portions of the wall that are already completed, so the whole thing is kind of a waste regardless.

(To that latter point, I'm not talking the demonstrations that were done during construction, but about footage done of people crossing the border in the last ~6 months)
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dragdeler

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44784 on: April 12, 2021, 11:00:45 am »

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« Last Edit: September 16, 2023, 02:22:24 pm by dragdeler »
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Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44785 on: April 12, 2021, 12:36:19 pm »

I forget now if it was here that the suggestion be put that it be converted to a raised monorail system, to serve both sides of the border.

The same E/W-ish tracks would exist as a spine to connect both the Statesward and Estadward 'feeds' and stations, but 'capsule control' on the train units would normally allow only transit between the same country for source and destination, either deep in each territory or at "wall-top" stations (you'd have either passing-loop or pocket-track "platform options" with doors and barriers that only open to the assigned access/egress direction).

If you board at an accredited "International Station" you step into a cross-border unit, whether that's just a short trip along the wall (e.g. Mexico maintains an IS at the east of a split community, the US at the west of it), a short trip over (Tijuana North spur onto and off again to San Diego South), a longer one (Escondido to Ensenada), or even a long dog-leg diagonal (between Veracruz and Vegas, as an express that travels almost the full border, between and two long spurs).

The 'wall' can be mere support pilings where there's no need (or easy ability to plant) continuous groundworks, including down the Rio Grand, as one long viaduct (there's precedent, give or take an inversion), or where you'd otherwise create defacto exclaves, and you could equitably split the track around sacred Indian lands or other awkward sites, rather than bulldoze straight through them.

As well as passenger trains (though perhaps blending in with them, maybe even coupled to them) you'd have border-patrol units using the frequent transits to train both Mk1 eyeballs and cameras over areas that need it (and now places that are solid enough barriers have a further tricky top to cross, anyway).

Of course, it would be solar-electric (tack the panels onto the structure, however best done, putting power almost straight into the system, though obviously needs grid/storage capabilities, might even allow further cross-border interlinks - except Texas if it still wants to go it alone) and might even at times be a net source of exportable power (from border, both directions) as had already been suggested with some of the initial long-list Trump-era suggestions.

As a joint project, it would give a green-industrial push on both sides of the border, and lead to new opportunities (and, yes, new challenges) in something of a Manhattan-/Apollo-project vein, but different to both. It could be extended and integrated with other travel systems to create The Great American Link throughout that multicontinental landmass from Tiera Del Fuego to Battin Island, if not Resolute and onwards. (Possibly much further, but it seems the Bering Straight is hard enough, as the 'easiest' of the barriers needing to bridge to connect with the inevitable pan-Afreurasian network that will cover the larger part of the planet and its population.)


I'm sure you will agree that this is an emminantly achievable task. 'Tis but a Simple Matter Of Engineering, of course. Now, we'll just take a brief coffee-break, and I'll be taking questions from the press first, then I'll ask if you can leave so I can open it up properly to the attending members of the public who are here to express their interest in investing...
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anewaname

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44786 on: April 12, 2021, 03:51:18 pm »

No, no, no... Walls are still effective. If someone puts up a wall, quality or not, there is that implication that bypassing it is illegal. If you force legal traffic to cross the border elsewhere, it means that aerial surveillance of that wall section does not need to question the legality of traffic bypassing the wall. Forcing legal traffic elsewhere is the important bit. It increases the land area that can be observed by machinery and high altitude surveillance.
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Quote from: dragdeler
There is something to be said about, if the stakes are as high, maybe reconsider your certitudes. One has to be aggressively allistic to feel entitled to be able to trust. But it won't happen to me, my bit doesn't count etc etc... Just saying, after my recent experiences I couldn't trust the public if I wanted to. People got their risk assessment neurons rotten and replaced with game theory. Folks walk around like fat turkeys taunting the world to slaughter them.

Dunamisdeos

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44787 on: April 12, 2021, 08:04:14 pm »

They can legit just climb over it. You can't stop surveilling that spot just because a wall got put in it. It doesn't force people anywhere.
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Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44788 on: April 12, 2021, 08:37:49 pm »

Unless you run enough monorail trains over the top of it, of course...
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anewaname

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44789 on: April 13, 2021, 05:42:34 am »

They can legit just climb over it. You can't stop surveilling that spot just because a wall got put in it. It doesn't force people anywhere.
The legal traffic is forced to cross the border elsewhere. The surveillance software can be used with the presumption that there is no legal traffic in that area. The surveillance software can be automated to a higher degree.
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Quote from: dragdeler
There is something to be said about, if the stakes are as high, maybe reconsider your certitudes. One has to be aggressively allistic to feel entitled to be able to trust. But it won't happen to me, my bit doesn't count etc etc... Just saying, after my recent experiences I couldn't trust the public if I wanted to. People got their risk assessment neurons rotten and replaced with game theory. Folks walk around like fat turkeys taunting the world to slaughter them.
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