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[The_Explorer]

Looks like the attack yesterday was by a non-white. Sorry for my mistake there, shouldn't have jumped to conclusions. He was likely someone who felt angered by the treatment of blacks and how cops get away with murder a lot of the time (hopefully the current case going on doesn't pave a way for change). If I was a minority, I'd be angry too and even as a white person it still makes me angry how they are treated by the government and police.

[Lord Shonus]

Initial reports are suggesting a mental downward spiral resulting in a suicide-by-cop. No evidence of a political motive has been found so far.

[Rolan7]

How are you ever going to prove that you are you, if there is no nationwide system of identification?

"dude just trust me"

We do have a sort of national ID, the social security number.  There's a card for it, but usually you only need the number since the card doesn't have a photo or expiration.  There's also one's birth certificate or similar citizenship paperwork (I know little about that).

It's kinda amusing/sad how "the government" knows your address, if you've ever moved.  You kinda have to tell each agency separately.  You tell the Post Office so they'll know where to redirect your mail.  Then you tell the DMV whenever your driver's license/photo ID expires immediately of course, haha, though it rarely matters.  And you also tell the IRS because they already know from your job, but they want to hear you say it (which is 99% of tax preparation).

And when you're getting that new driver's license/photo ID you have to "prove" your residence... usually with the old ID and a private utility bill for them to glance at.  Which is just, wow, so redundant AND insecure.

Because after all that, they still don't know where you live for purposes of voting.  No, that's a different department.  You register to vote, proving your identity again, basically making a reservation for voting day.

Then on voting day (or the weeks prior) you say "Hey I'm checking in, I made a reservation under this name and address, here's my vote."  Or you just do it by mail (signed by a witness now on the hook for felony perjury, AFAIK in my state).  If multiple people use the same reservation, they get caught (like all those Trump supporters believed the lies about election fraud.  Reality hits HARD sometimes, and it's really not their fault for believing the POTUS). 

If I look different than my photo ID, well first gosh thanks, I appreciate you noticing, but you're still giving me my ballot sooner or later.  The photo ID accomplishes *nothing* except hassling legitimate voters.

[Dunamisdeos]

Looks like the attack yesterday was by a non-white. Sorry for my mistake there, shouldn't have jumped to conclusions. He was likely someone who felt angered by the treatment of blacks and how cops get away with murder a lot of the time (hopefully the current case going on doesn't pave a way for change). If I was a minority, I'd be angry too and even as a white person it still makes me angry how they are treated by the government and police.

Initial reports are suggesting a mental downward spiral resulting in a suicide-by-cop. No evidence of a political motive has been found so far.

I mean the only things they know so far was that he lost his job and followed the Nation of Islam. That points to either disgruntled suicide by cop, or a racially motivated attack. The latter feels less likely unless more info comes out, since it implies he just happened to see two white dudes in uniform on his way to get some coffee and thought this was a good opportunity to slam into a barrier today.

Really though, the only thing we ought to acknowledge is that we know jack squat about his motivations right now. Could just be a regular Islamic black dude with a grudge, or a mental illness.

*snip, a lot of relevant thoughts on the matter*

Yeah but can't we just ask people to bring a picture ID that costs 10$ and remains relevant for like 5 years rather than go through all that hoopla? Use the database for when people get the ID card to check off voting. Would that not be easier for literally everyone involved? Cost per individual is practically negligent, and it removes all uncertainty.

[Rolan7]

I guess the issue is that a lot of stuff is state-level, but letting them access a federal registry which issues standardized photo IDs would be a big improvement.  I guess the passport system is sorta like that.

A nice mandatory, nationally-run, completely free photo ID system could work fine (based on other countries).  Passports are expensive and state-level IDs vary between $10 + 10 minutes, or a long drive to a long wait - by design.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

*snip, a lot of relevant thoughts on the matter*

Yeah but can't we just ask people to bring a picture ID that costs 10$ and remains relevant for like 5 years rather than go through all that hoopla? Use the database for when people get the ID card to check off voting. Would that not be easier for literally everyone involved? Cost per individual is practically negligent, and it removes all uncertainty.

Of course, of course, just $10 for an ID card.

And $25 for a bus pass to go to the DMV to apply for the card, I'm kidding of course, there is no bus route. Just a few thousand dollars for a car and the gasoline to run it. But why are you applying for a special ID if you have your drivers license? Well, whatever.

And a day off work to go do this, oh you can't come in? Just don't bother coming back, we'll get another temp.

Course, cops are all around the DMV day-in and day-out, but that just makes you feel safe, right? None of those nasty types coming around to harass you, especially not filthy hobos.

And actually, Senator Jefferson Beauregard has some real opinions about the DMV's hour schedule, wasting good taxpayer dollars being open after 2pm. Let's say a $50 dollar fee for custom voter ID in lieu of a drivers license too. Oh, and no weekends, Christ said to rest on weekends.

Senator Fredrick Washington also amends that special custom IDs shouldn't be available to felons, don't you agree? I know the Democrats really like to defend felons, but surely in this case we see that they need to get in the back of the line.

And hey, we can finally stop validating any of these so-called "tribal government" ID cards now that we have this, since there's only one government in America. Right of conquest, and all.

All of this is cool with you, right? By the way, soup kitchen's shutting down, so stop coming and fucking loitering or I'll call the police. Go get that money for your voter ID card, registration ends on March 15th, same as when your taxes are due, am I right? (I'm not.) Ha hah. Seriously though, this is private property.

Vote Blue No Matter Who, for your electoral security.

[Rolan7]

Sorry for rapidposting but yeah that's what I mean by free - not only no upfront charge, but it would be the state's responsibility to drive out to these people on request.  That's the only way you could make it mandatory (which should be synonymous with making it mandatory for voting).

All for no evidenced benefit in the voting process.  I just think it could help with other aspects of life.  But there are obviously concerns about central information registries.

[hector13]

Voting is a privilege guys, if you can’t get all your ducks in a row to do it, you don’t deserve it.

/s

As an aside, the political environment in the US is such that I found a website that appeared to be endorsing radical voter suppression, but it took me a few pages to realize it was ironic in tone.

Things are going to be horrible if that doesn’t change, and it’s probably not going to change.

[None]

Yeah but can't we just ask people to bring a picture ID that costs 10$ and remains relevant for like 5 years rather than go through all that hoopla? Use the database for when people get the ID card to check off voting. Would that not be easier for literally everyone involved? Cost per individual is practically negligent, and it removes all uncertainty.

See, but that requires someone to get to the DMV with proof of name, date of birth, identity, residency, citizenship, and SSN. Birth certificate, passport, photo/signature, utility bill (all of which must be originals, no photocopies), the ability to pay fees associated with getting this or any of the above so that you can go through the fee petition process, in which you need to be at the DMV with proof of name, date of birth, identity and residency, a mailbox to receive the ID card in.

Oh, and surrender your driver's license if you have one but want a state ID anyways.

This is why there's pushback- it's a bureaucratic nightmare circus to jump through if you have any sort of impediment, like being a college student away from home, or poor, or busy.

[Andux]

Also worth noting:

• Voter fraud in the US is already practically nonexistant.
• Georgia (whose new voter ID law sparked the current debate) and its current governor have a history of electoral fuckery.

[Vector]

Yeah but can't we just ask people to bring a picture ID that costs 10$ and remains relevant for like 5 years rather than go through all that hoopla? Use the database for when people get the ID card to check off voting. Would that not be easier for literally everyone involved? Cost per individual is practically negligent, and it removes all uncertainty.

See, but that requires someone to get to the DMV with proof of name, date of birth, identity, residency, citizenship, and SSN. Birth certificate, passport, photo/signature, utility bill (all of which must be originals, no photocopies), the ability to pay fees associated with getting this or any of the above so that you can go through the fee petition process, in which you need to be at the DMV with proof of name, date of birth, identity and residency, a mailbox to receive the ID card in.

Oh, and surrender your driver's license if you have one but want a state ID anyways.

This is why there's pushback- it's a bureaucratic nightmare circus to jump through if you have any sort of impediment, like being a college student away from home, or poor, or busy.

Or being trans, so that the name/gender on some of your documents might not match.

[Dunamisdeos]

I'm not talking about requiring a voter ID. I'm talking about the state ID that's already available and in use. The existing system. It seems to be working.

Also worth noting:

• Voter fraud in the US is already practically nonexistant.
• Georgia (whose new voter ID law sparked the current debate) and its current governor have a history of electoral fuckery.

Right. We already require ID, and we don't have voter fraud. Also, it's not really a question of surrendering your driver's license for a state ID? You can use the driver's license too, if you have it. Since the existing system for voter verification is already working at what amounts to peak efficiency, and demonstrably so, the only reason to change it is if you don't want it to work as well.

I can show up at my DMV and bring a birth certificate, W-2, and proof that I live anywhere whatsoever including a dorm and any mail I've ever gotten there. I get an ID card. This does obviously exclude the outright homeless. I am at a bit of a loss as to what other demographic we are talking about that has no birth certificate, no ID, no W-2, and also has the ability to get to work and a voting booth but not the DMV. Like please educate me here, but aside from a homeless person what eligible voter has zero proof that they exist and therefore can't use our current system?

Or being trans, so that the name/gender on some of your documents might not match.

You can just bring proof of a name change, as in any situation where your name has changed. If you've done that you absolutely do not have a problem with getting around and filling out forms or having proof of ID.

[hector13]

Yer link’s broken, Duna.

[Vector]

Or being trans, so that the name/gender on some of your documents might not match.

You can just bring proof of a name change, as in any situation where your name has changed. If you've done that you absolutely do not have a problem with getting around and filling out forms or having proof of ID.

That's good to know. There's still this whole thing about many places requiring you to live a year as your target gender before you start hormones, rapid changes while taking hormone therapy resulting in your photo starting not to match your present appearance while paperwork hasn't caught up, and so on. Given the standard anti-trans narrative of "Men Dressing Up as Women In Order To Commit Crimes," this doesn't always result well.

[Dunamisdeos]

Ooooof. I hadn't thought of that. Transition is lengthy, isn't it? I guess some of us just assume you go see a doctor and that's it. I guess that could be a problem for photo ID. Hopefully this isn't insensitive somehow, but if you've got the stuff to book and undergo transition, shouldn't you be able to just go and update your forms of ID?

The VA page says if your name has changed bring proof thereof. I think that since they can't prove that you're trans while applying, and that's not tracked by the state as far as I know, it should just be "my name has changed, no reason needed, here's the doc". Transitioning/transition should have zero bearing on the process of obtaining/using ID in theory.

Yer link’s broken, Duna.

I totes hit URL instead of quote, my bad XD