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[anewaname]

Knowing the last major florida lynching occurred after my grandfather (who I live with, currently) was born has definitely been a consistent source of perspective on how fucked up the US is and how far past its sins it very much isn't, yeah.

Some folks like to act like our nasty shit is somehow off in the distant mists of yesteryear, but, like. No. It's not. Nevermind all the new crap, plenty of the old crap hasn't exactly been laying buried for very long

That father and son team that used a truck to chase down and murder a black man recently, that is exactly the result of that "father to kids training" that has perpetuated the nastier elements of society (acts of harassment, intimidation, violence, and theft, against others in the same community but not in the same social group). If that event was not brought to public attention, it would have remained as a bonding moment between the two of  them, because what father and son bonding shouldn't involve a premeditated murder?

It's a continuation of an old policy by which Mexican immigrants would be doused with gasoline at the border "in order to kill lice/parasites." This was apparently one of the inspirations for Zyklon B usage you-know-where.

Get your livestock to inhale gasoline vapors for 30 minutes and they are much easier to control, and it gives you the opportunity to ensure future control over them by enforced sterility and stupidity).

[MrRoboto75]

So if you just had 100 new families show up in your town overnight, with no housing or jobs for them, how would you feel?

On the flip side, would you be willing to live in a town that always have enough spare capacity to absorb an extra 200 people at any point in time?  This means keeping vigilance to keep those properties maintained, not used for crime, have enough extra capacity in grocery stores and services and all that?

On the flip-flip side, if you were fleeing an area due to war or whatever, what would your expectations be of the place to which you are fleeing? Would you expect there just to be no constraints on available housing and just magically jobs waiting for you? Or would you have an understanding that there really isn't anything waiting for you?  I think you would not expect to just be told you have to stay in a compound, at the threat of gunpoint, I agree with that.

We've already seen how the world in general doesn't like "spare capacity" to deal with shocks, and refugee immigration is definitely a kind of "shock," at least locally.

So one of the world's richest and most powerful governments can prevent the bankruptcy of multiple multi-billion dollar corporations multiple times in twenty years, but can't spare for a handful of refugees it probably created?

A lot of the times "We can't" really seems to translate to "we don't want to".

[Maximum Spin]

So one of the world's richest and most powerful governments can prevent the bankruptcy of multiple multi-billion dollar corporations multiple times in twenty years, but can't spare for a handful of refugees it probably created?

Well, no, it can't. The first part just involves making up some new numbers on a ledger. It's a purely artificial exercise. The second part involves building real things in the real world and is much harder.

[Dunamisdeos]

Shame you cant make up numbers on the ledger for paying the people needed to build sufficient migrant facilities.

[Maximum Spin]

Shame you cant make up numbers on the ledger for paying the people needed to build sufficient migrant facilities.

You really can't: they need actual money in order to buy supplies and pay for labour, it's not enough to pay them with inflation.

[MrRoboto75]

So one of the world's richest and most powerful governments can prevent the bankruptcy of multiple multi-billion dollar corporations multiple times in twenty years, but can't spare for a handful of refugees it probably created?

Well, no, it can't. The first part just involves making up some new numbers on a ledger. It's a purely artificial exercise. The second part involves building real things in the real world and is much harder.

It's just as possible to make up the money to get the resources.  The labor's sitting right there unemployed right now anyway.  Using labor and made-up funds to build public goods is how we pulled out of the first economic downturn, and we barely invested in infrastructure ever since.

Again, it's "we don't want to."

[LordBaal]

I for one would be more than happy to work making reasonable shelters for those kids, hell even if it means plumbing.

[Lord Shonus]

Personally, I'd want the State to come, and find and locate them available housing distributed around the country, housing them in decent temporary accommodation whilst doing so, and whilst also offering support services to aid in getting them employment and integration. Register the children with local schools and offer counseling and support services, sponsor the adults who need it to attend night classes to learn language skills or skills in demand if they don't have prior skills.

You know, treat them like the desperate people in need of help and support that they are rather than some mythical other to demonize.

Whilst we're at it, use those same basic systems and safety nets to deal with homelessness and unemployment.

The problem with that is that there is a finite amount of labor and resources available. Distributing these people nation wide is not only fairly expensive, it will require considerable amounts of resources to track when they do manage to link up the people with who they're supposed to be with. This massive diversion of resoruces will also make it far more difficult to track down those family connections. Which is the primary goal because it is a permanent solution instead of a stopgap.

[delphonso]

Not enough labor. Gotta turn away immigrants, you know - people coming to America who are willing to work - you know, otherwise known as labor.

What resources are we talking about? The US is willing to throw billions on a wall that research says and has said only increases illegal immigration.

The US has the largest military and most advanced intelligence network around. What is the point? If you're commited to turning these people away, use this outrageous power to not be cruel about it.

[Maximum Spin]

Not enough labor. Gotta turn away immigrants, you know - people coming to America who are willing to work - you know, otherwise known as labor.

The government is not actually allowed to use illegal immigrant labour to build facilities for housing illegal immigrants. If it were, we could probably build a lot more of them, but it would have certain Dachau vibes.

[MrRoboto75]

ah, those pesky laws getting in the way of that thing that makes laws

[Maximum Spin]

ah, those pesky laws getting in the way of that thing that makes laws

Yes, that's one of the benefits of being a constitutional republic with separation of powers.

[Rolan7]

Heh...  Yeah, the government doesn't hire undocumented labor...
It subsidizes farms which obviously and overwhelmingly use undocumented labor
It hires contractors to build our infrastructure who use undocumented labor
Its laws are written by people whose children are raised by undocumented labor

But there's a degree of separation there!  We couldn't hire contractors to build and manage camps for housing and watching people, though - that'd probably end up super unethical, with some perverse incentives.

The problem with that is that there is a finite amount of labor and resources available. Distributing these people nation wide is not only fairly expensive, it will require considerable amounts of resources to track when they do manage to link up the people with who they're supposed to be with. This massive diversion of resoruces will also make it far more difficult to track down those family connections. Which is the primary goal because it is a permanent solution instead of a stopgap.

Fortunately we have the free market to distribute the problem of planning our economy.  Uh, equitably or something.
It can't plan for international migration though, only interstate.

[MrRoboto75]

Heh...  Yeah, the government doesn't hire undocumented labor...
It subsidizes farms which obviously and overwhelmingly use undocumented labor
It hires contractors to build our infrastructure who use undocumented labor
Its laws are written by people whose children are raised by undocumented labor

Not to mention one of the world's largest prison populations, often used as unregulated labor.

[Dunamisdeos]

OH come on folks. The hell are we talking about using illegal labor for? We have had billions of dollars and enough work crews to build half of an utterly worthless wall to prop up our failing national ego for the last four years. Pretending that those funds and resources don't physically exist when we want to have them build facilities for immigration IN THE SAME FUCKING PLACE WE WERE JUST CARRYING OUT LARGE SCALE CONSTRUCTION LAST YEAR isn't just disingenuous, it's a deliberate lie.

"Yes but money and labor" doesn't hold water when we just sent piles of money and hordes of labor to the same zip code expressly for construction.

And yes fool, if you can whip up money to fill a CEO's bank account, you can whip up money to buy construction materials. The foreman can use government funds to buy steel the same way Elon Musk can use his bailout money to shoot sedans at Jupiter.