Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Frumple]

Eh, it's US cops. There's maybe some respect but it's tempered pretty hard by the flat fact things would have been a hell of a lot different if the demographics of the coup attempt had been different

There's even complicating factors with what did happen, since basically everything we know points to internal sabotage of the defenses there, among other things that don't exactly cover the folks in blue in glory. There were some decent folks involved in what response happened, I guess, but any respect to be given is probably for individuals, in this case. Not so much cops as a general thing, and fucking especially not the specific organizations involved.

[martinuzz]

Maybe.. Maybe not. Speculation is just that, speculation.

[Frumple]

I mean, the speculation that the response would have been different for different demographics isn't speculation, we have clear examples within the last year or two. Nevermind the rest or it. There were maybe some decent folks involved, and they at least kept some things from being worse, sure, but, like. The situation was pretty shit from their side of things, overall.

[Bumber]

I mean, the speculation that the response would have been different for different demographics isn't speculation, we have clear examples within the last year or two. Nevermind the rest or it. There were maybe some decent folks involved, and they at least kept some things from being worse, sure, but, like. The situation was pretty shit from their side of things, overall.

There are also a number of examples where the police didn't respond in a different way, and basically just kept falling back whenever protesters or rioters got closer. You're cherry picking, then trying to apply that to a single hypothetical situation using the same officers that showed restraint.

[TamerVirus]

I keep recalling the WWWF video of Trump beating up different "people" at the ring-side. WWWF was new to me then.

This bugs the wrestling fan in me in a big way. The WWE hasn’t been known as the WWWF since 1979!

[Loud Whispers]

I keep recalling the WWWF video of Trump beating up different "people" at the ring-side. WWWF was new to me then.

This bugs the wrestling fan in me in a big way. The WWE hasn’t been known as the WWWF since 1979!

Honestly got confused for a second wondering how this was connected to Trump

[scriver]

World Wrestling Werewolf Federation

[Rolan7]

I mean, the speculation that the response would have been different for different demographics isn't speculation, we have clear examples within the last year or two. Nevermind the rest or it. There were maybe some decent folks involved, and they at least kept some things from being worse, sure, but, like. The situation was pretty shit from their side of things, overall.

There are also a number of examples where the police didn't respond in a different way, and basically just kept falling back whenever protesters or rioters got closer. You're cherry picking, then trying to apply that to a single hypothetical situation using the same officers that showed restraint.

These police were supposed to defend our elected officials.  The common, relevant comparison is how violently and heavily the Lincoln Memorial, a statue, was defended against BLM.  In the same city.

Congress was suspiciously underguarded considering that there was plenty of warning about the massive "protest".  And I don't really believe that our intelligence agencies, with their free reign to violate our privacy, didn't know about the plans to literally capture or kill congresspeople.

But the individual cops, I dunno.  My mom thinks they were just too outnumbered to do anything.  I believe that if they were facing leftists, they would have gladly fired into the crowd ATTACKING CONGRESS.  Instead they opened the fucking doors, some took selfies, and some got killed anyway because that's how fascist mobs operate.

[anewaname]

The capitol police are not the same as other police. Their job role is much more specific; roughly to protect the two square-miles of congressional grounds, and the people on it. The wikipedia link has more detail about racial profiles, etc. But the point is that their training and tactics are going to be much different. Mostly, they would deal with lone-wolf crazy people and subtefugue/espionage attempts, they always have backup available nearby, and they understand that the accidental killing of bystanders is not acceptable in any circumstance.

Check out the 40 second clip of when Ashli Babbit was shot. The police had the gun aimed at the doorway for 30+ seconds, then Babbitt starts climbing over the barricade and gets through the doorway, putting her body several feet above the heads of the crowd and into the hallway. The officer shot once. Only Babbit was in the line of fire. She died. If I understand correctly, the officers were holding that doorway because other people were still evacuating behind them.

Now, take a look at what officers in a city often face... The potential crimes they are watching for are often low-value, their turf is a large area and they do not know the depths of it as well as the local people do, and the possible unknown dangers to an officer that moves into the depths are mind-boggling. just pointing out contributing factors to the fear/anger/survival impulses that pervade bad policing...

--------

It bothers me that two of the capitol police "committed suicide". This sounds more like a cover-up of killings, of traitors those within the ranks who might be able to testify, for or against. (EDITed this  a bit)

[MrRoboto75]

It bothers me that two of the capitol police "committed suicide". This sounds more like a cover-up of killings, of traitors those within the ranks who might be able to testify, for or against. (EDITed this  a bit)

Officer Epstein didn't kill himself

[Lord Shonus]

I mean, the speculation that the response would have been different for different demographics isn't speculation, we have clear examples within the last year or two. Nevermind the rest or it. There were maybe some decent folks involved, and they at least kept some things from being worse, sure, but, like. The situation was pretty shit from their side of things, overall.

There are also a number of examples where the police didn't respond in a different way, and basically just kept falling back whenever protesters or rioters got closer. You're cherry picking, then trying to apply that to a single hypothetical situation using the same officers that showed restraint.

These police were supposed to defend our elected officials.  The common, relevant comparison is how violently and heavily the Lincoln Memorial, a statue, was defended against BLM.  In the same city.

Congress was suspiciously underguarded considering that there was plenty of warning about the massive "protest".  And I don't really believe that our intelligence agencies, with their free reign to violate our privacy, didn't know about the plans to literally capture or kill congresspeople.

But the individual cops, I dunno.  My mom thinks they were just too outnumbered to do anything.  I believe that if they were facing leftists, they would have gladly fired into the crowd ATTACKING CONGRESS.  Instead they opened the fucking doors, some took selfies, and some got killed anyway because that's how fascist mobs operate.

I don't know why this is a hard concept to grasp, but furing into that mob outside, with those numbers would have been suicide. All they would have done is wounded or killed a few rioters and then got themselves turned into a fine red paste on the ground. Much of the criticized behavior such as selfies was straight up deescalation techniques.

The situation later where the woman got shot was different - the mob was up against a chokepoint and didn't have the same mass. That allowed a single deadly shot to actually stop them.

Once adequate numbers were available, the takedowns were quite aggressive. When Officer Goodman was able to split off manageable chunks of the mob, takedowns were brutal.

Why the cops were so heavily outnumbered is another story. There's ample evidence to support savotage from the very top - much of the command chain in DC goes through POTUS.

[Rolan7]

I don't think they should have fired on the crowd, but I believe they would have if the situation was different.  They should have deployed riot suppression measures like tear gas and rubber bullets, which may very well have dispersed the crowd (remember that one woman who fled in shock after getting maced?).  They were set up to fail, for sure, but it's kinda telling that most of them did so little.  And the crowd was mostly normal people who wouldn't have charged into gunfire, give me break.

I wonder how many times they dined out on "I protect the seat of government with my life!" before they finally got the chance to do so.  That said, some of them did manage the evacuation surprisingly well given the circumstances.  Things were almost SO much worse, and it wasn't some fluke.

And BS the takedowns were aggressive!  Don't you remember the people being casually helped down the steps?  Or allowed to protest well into the night, past the curfew, directly in front of lines of armed officers?  They treated them with kids gloves!  Some people who lingered *inside the building* were cuffed on the ground, but they were BY FAR the exception.

Aggressive takedowns is what killed and wounded so many nonviolent BLM protesters (and I don't mean the "associated" rioting, I mean nonviolent protesters).  People slammed into the ground on national TV.  That didn't happen here, I wonder why.

[Vector]

Yeah, they tear gassed high schoolers locally. They weren't armed or attacking the government, LOL.

[Random_Dragon]

Exactly this. The police response was deliberately half-assed out of terrorist sympathies from start to finish. From the utter lack of preparation when they knew well in advance there would be a shitshow, to what little police response was available being FURTHER compromised by the types who'd take selfies with domestic terrorists, to fuckery that went into delaying the National Guard response, to gently leading the fuckers out of the capital once things finally started to wind down.

I wouldn't call it coincidental that the ensuing crackdown was spearheaded by the FBI, a department that Trump had done everything in their power to alienate and piss off since day one. Which sadly just makes me worry that even the FBI doing their damn job might well be just as politically-motivated as the various other departments and their reasons for NOT doing their job.

[Lord Shonus]

Precisely. Someone who is not armed and attacking the government does not have the ability to roll over the police and go on a bloodlust-fueled rampage. The Capitol police were trying to stop a herd of angry elephants with slingshots.