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[Dostoevsky]

I'd pipe in, but MSH covered it thoroughly (including the 00000000  password for quite a while).

As far as we know while on paper it's a somewhat distressing setup, in practice it doesn't seem too bad?

[Frumple]

Only nuked two inhabited cities so far!

wait shit

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Most people know about MacArthur trying to nuke China, but there was actually a repeat incident where Westmoreland and some conspirators tried to get nukes deployed in Vietnam, which I suppose was their ultimate attempt at the "statistical theory" of war (i.e., kill everyone).

Oh yeah, and there's dozens and dozens of nukes that are missing between the nuclear powers. Most of them would have expired by now and were probably just dropped in the ocean, but still...

Speaking of expired, the active nukes of the nuclear powers may be to some degree nonviable as well. Nukes go bad fairly quickly if not maintained.

[LordBaal]

[Dostoevsky]

Only nuked two inhabited cities so far!

wait shit

I think that predated the modern system, but also that was partly the heady days of a new toy (never mind a world-destroying one).

Honestly, two nukes over the last 70 years isn't too bad a record. (Knock on wood.)

Edit: and per the expiration note, that's an active topic in US military discussions. Obama was relatively pro-'modernization' despite his other positions.

[sluissa]

Just a minor correction. Submarines do have ways to receive(but not transmit) communications while remaining submerged. VLF radio signals will penetrate water to some depth and US submarines have an extendable radio buoy that lets them stay even deeper than that while receiving.

I wouldn't be surprised if there WERE a Dead Hand style system set up, but the US also puts a LOT of effort in maintaining backup redundant and independent communications paths so that a strike would be unlikely to knock everything out. Which means that as long as SOMEONE in the line of succession stays alive, the order still should go through a civilian at some point. Although "Should" is the operative word there. Presumably things are better than in the days of the code being all zeroes, but how much better is an answer I don't have.

[Cthulhu]

My favorite fail-deadly system is the deterrence fleet in Charles Stross's Singularity Sky books.  Four or five ramscoops stationed in the system's Oort cloud, with coordinates to the predicted most likely enemy planet in their computers.  If contact to the home planet is lost they accelerate up to .8C in random directions, then turn towards their targets and coast the rest of the way.  Once they're at the point of no return the ships break apart to saturate enemy defenses, and at the speed they're going it only takes one piece.

Then the government's diplomats who are safe on other planets all have a code that will deactivate the deterrence fleet.  I think they have to get two codes to deactivate.  Alternatively they also have an "under duress" code to give to people trying to interrogate them for the code.  If the fleet receives the under duress code then they immediately turn to engage the target and their comms permanently shut off. 

I mean it'll take 30-50 years to work, depending on who did the deed, but once they're out you're fucked.  The plot of the book involves a secret society trying to eliminate the diplomats and transmit the under duress code for evil secret society purposes.

[wierd]

Not well reported, but still in the news:

https://invezz.com/news/2021/01/30/us-sec-opens-the-investigation-regarding-robinhood-and-wsb/

SEC opens investigation over RobinHood's delisting of GME and AMC stocks during peak of market volatility.

... Shortsqueeze 2021: The Drama Continues ...

[Lord Shonus]

The 0000000 code was not the football code. It was the Silo Commander's half of the PAL. Arming a nuclear warhead via the PAL system requires two codes - one of which comes from the President, the other of which is a confirmation code from other authorized officials. At DEFCON 2 (War potentially imminent), the commander of individual missile silos was an authorized individual if he had reasonable reason to believe that there was an in-progress attack on the United States. This was no secret - it was a hedge against a decapitation strike that took out all the people who could confirm a strike, and thus publicizing it was a crucial part of maintaining the balance of terror. Allegedly, the Air Force decided that individual silo codes were unnecessary because there was no reasonable way for a hostile actor to take possession of them, and set them all to 00000000 to ensure that there was no possibility that "SHIT, I FORGOT THE CODE" would delay a launch until the destruction of the silo. This has been disputed.

The other two legs of the nuclear triad - nuclear gravity bombs/cruise missiles and the Navy's missile subs - were not secured in such a way. The bomber weapons were by necessity more vulnerable to potential theft (and, crucially, were intended to be handed over to allied powers such as Germany in the event of war), while the Navy's subs were so much less vulnerable that a short delay was not considered a critical flaw.


The notion that either the President OR the military has the ability to declare a strike without being checked is only true in older eras - PALS were ordered to be installed in the 60s under Kennedy, were completed by the late 70s for foreign-deployed weapons, and were universal by the mid 80s.

[Vector]

The notion that either the President OR the military has the ability to declare a strike without being checked is only true in older eras - PALS were ordered to be installed in the 60s under Kennedy, were completed by the late 70s for foreign-deployed weapons, and were universal by the mid 80s.

I can't tell you what a relief it is to hear this. Honestly. I wish that they would widely publicize this information. My mom grew up with the "duck and cover in case of missiles" era in the US and I grew up with the "learn about the duck and cover from missiles and watch horrible documentaries about nuclear testing" era. So . . . yeah. Just. Thanks. One fewer thing to worry about.

[Loud Whispers]

How different would be our history if a drunken nuclear strike hits North Korea back then....

I honestly thought MSH was joking about drunk Nixon trying to nuke North Korea

"Nixon became incensed and ordered a tactical nuclear strike... The Joint Chiefs were alerted and asked to recommend targets, but Kissinger got on the phone to them. They agreed not to do anything until Nixon sobered up in the morning."

The allegation of flirting with nuclear weaponry is not an isolated one. Nixon had been open to the use of tactical nuclear weapons in Vietnam as early as 1954 and as president-elect in 1968 had talked of striking "a blow that would both end the war and win it". A Kissinger aide who moved over to the White House, David Young, told a colleague "of the time he was on the phone [listening] when Nixon and Kissinger were talking. Nixon was drunk, and he said, 'Henry, we've got to nuke them.' "

Bro don't get political
1 drink later
'Henry, we've got to nuke them,'

[LordBaal]

From orbit. Is the only way to be sure.

[Dostoevsky]

Bro don't get political
1 drink later
'Henry, we've got to nuke them,'

From the memoirs/biographies I've read Nixon doing drunk orders/demands was not uncommon. Usually in the middle of the night, too. Eventually became just choosing not to hear various orders.

[LordBaal]

If someone that, say, help people buying shoes, shows up drunk to work, that person will get fired at once.

Why this do not apply to say, a president. I mean, not firing a president for being drunk, in its free time a president should do almost anything anyone else could. But showing up for office or trying to execute functions while drunk should be at least an offense.

[MrRoboto75]

If someone that, say, help people buying shoes, shows up drunk to work, that person will get fired at once.

Why this do not apply to say, a president. I mean, not firing a president for being drunk, in its free time a president should do almost anything anyone else could. But showing up for office or trying to execute functions while drunk should be at least an offense.

Then Ulysses S Grant would've gotten nothing done