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[Lord Shonus]

Most Western European countries were no more tolerant of Communism than the US was - in multiple cases less so - and used much the same means to fight it. That theory is bollocks.


The real reason is much more prosaic - the conditions in which authoritarianism with a personality cult can arise in an established democracy are quite rare. Persons of an authoritarian bent who can actually form a personality cult are also quite rare. It is thus extremely rare to have both at the same time.

You see this in the 1930s. The Great Depression gave rise to the conditions necessary almost globally, but you only see a half-dozen or so such leaders rise to power before Hitler went a'conquering - mostly in countries that were not super stable in the first place. There were activists in most places, and these provided a core for occupation governments as countries fell, but most countries rejected their would-be dictators because said dictators simply weren't the right sort of people to exploit the situation.

[MorleyDev]

You misunderstand, it's the activists and the 'cultural leanings' that hypothesis is referring to more-so than the leaders that take advantage of it. That the US never surpressed it as thoroughly as other countries amongst the populace in the following decades because it lacked that cultural wound. Instead, most of the persistent cultural wounds in the US seem to be from the Cold War (e.g national insurance-based healthcare being 'socialist' and therefore bad, patriotism = god = freedum versus the godless commies).

Obviously it's on the rise again worldwide, and that's terrifying, but there's a view that white supremacy never stopped being an integral part of American culture and that that the political culture of a lot of Americans was left to be 'a little bit too close to the fascist ideologies for comfort' because American cutlure from 1950s onwards lacked the scars that European cultures had.

----

In other news...well, more of the same but more so. Is Trump flat out daring the Republicans to impeach him? It seems like the numbers may have shifted towards impeachment, especially with his most recent appearence. Either he's so psychologically incapable of admitting fault that he'd rather keep pressing their buttons, or he hopes that it prompts his base to launch Coup 2: Electric Bougaloo and that his 'best bets' are now on that succeeding. Which seems rather 'double or nothing on a bad hand' but he never had the best sense of business acumen.

[Urist McSpike]

Trump is a narcissist, and incapable of admitting fault.  Everything is about him, but only if it's good.

America has always had a thing against socialism, so any kind of national healthcare will take time.  Heck, when Social Security was first introduced, "socialism" was an argument against it.

In a Senate Finance Committee hearing, one Senator asked Secretary of Labor Frances Perkins, "Isn't this socialism?" She said that it was not, but he continued, "Isn't this a teeny-weeny bit of socialism?"

It was signed into law in 1935.  Try to get rid of it now...

But it's funny, really.  The original Pledge of Allegiance was written by a socialist.  Didn't mention anything about God, either, until intense lobbying the Christian groups in the 50's.  (You know, the good ol' days of McCarthyism, the Cold War, yadda yadda)

[Lord Shonus]

Obviously it's on the rise again worldwide, and that's terrifying, but there's a view that white supremacy never stopped being an integral part of American culture and that that the political culture of a lot of Americans was left to be 'a little bit too close to the fascist ideologies for comfort' because American cutlure from 1950s onwards lacked the scars that European cultures had.

There have been European neo-nazi and skinhead groups for literal decades. They usually weren't more common or influential than the Klan until the 70s or 80s, primarily because the post-WWII Klan was at the height of power, but they've never been as minor and pathetic as the theory assumes.

[Duuvian]

I saw a French black and white film called La Haine, on a movie channel that played less well known but deserving movies. It featured followers of Le Pen as antagonists (I think the father was in power during the setting but I don't know too much about French politics).

Almost completely unrelated, that channel also showed Let Bullets Fly. I love that movie so much. To this day I don't know if it's a straight action movie or a comedy played completely straight. The wagon scene near the end is confusing to me; I think it's a cultural reference I'm not aware of that likely speaks on corruption.

[Vector]

I saw a French black and white film called La Haine, on a movie channel that played less well known but deserving movies.

I've seen this film also. Highly recommended.

[misko27]

HOLY FUCK


Big, if true.

Here we go. Where's my popcorn?

On one hand, I was literally shocked to hear this, since McConnell is such a figure of... disrepute. On the other, it does make sense: He was already, reports say, furious with Trump after losing Georgia, and likely to have a very dim view of the man responsible; he sounded furious the day of the certification, and that was before Trump incited people to try and kill him (well, Pence first, but McConnell I'm sure was on the agenda) and people metaphorically and literally pissed on his day. And even (perhaps especially) the most cynical politician has to realize that losing three branches of government is... well it's pretty bad. Not a winning strategy, you know?

Not to mention that the only way Republicans can hope to come back right now is for Trump to disengage. Fact is, Trump is like 90% responsible for losing Georgia. Republicans lost ground relative to November, and pretty much the only damn thing that happened for two solid months straight is Trump talking about how he totally won the election. If Trump plans to run in 2024, he's gonna stay involved constantly, and for him that will mean constantly going on about how the election was stolen from him, and you know, telling people elections don't work is not a great turnout strategy. If Trump can't run though (because he's been impeached) it might make him stop. So goes the thought process I imagine.

[Eschar]

Saw that a couple days ago. Good chance it either doesn't materialize, is smaller than planned or they meet actual police resistance because, you know, they broadcasted their plans.

I mean, they broadcasted their January 6 plans too.

[TamerVirus]

If only you knew how bad things really are
GOP is pretty fucked

[Quarque]

I wasn't surprised about McConnell's move at all. He serves the interests of corporations and no one else. Most big corporations have dropped Trump, so McConnell follows.

[delphonso]

Saw that a couple days ago. Good chance it either doesn't materialize, is smaller than planned or they meet actual police resistance because, you know, they broadcasted their plans.

I mean, they broadcasted their January 6 plans too.

Don't confuse the 6th for incompetence. Anyone who visits the Capitol building know how over aggressive those police are.

[LordBaal]

Yeah, but what if.... Trump makes his own party, with blackjack and hookers? How many republicans would go there? In the end it would only split them further, but it could be problematic?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

This is a possible timeline, but the situation is an awkward one. Trump's influence in the GOP is already extreme and outsized - he has the whole base save the NeverTrumpers and the pure pragmatists, but he also by all indications has the RNC officials. The most major group of people he doesn't have is the Senate Republicans (and the Tuesday Group in the House) - while they have helped him out a lot, they also clearly wanted him as a puppet instead of what he actually turned out to be.

These folks have the greatest influence in the GOP outside of Trump - they're quite literally a collection of what passes for elder statesmen among the Republicans these days. But in my opinion, Trump has more influence than them by a significant margin now.

Rationally, Trump should not try to form a MAGA Party - he should try to finish taking over the GOP and to punish the Senate Republicans as horridly as he can in order to obtain absolute party dominance. But Trump is not a rational actor, and he often buys into his own hype, which with many of his supporters calling on him to make a MAGA Party and destroy the GOP might spur him to try and do just that.

The current situation has screwed things up a lot for this - Trump needs a way to communicate with his followers to do this. I said he could do it with a single tweet back in December, and that is obviously no longer an option.

Assuming he did? Most of the House Republicans and maybe a smattering of crazies to a half of the Senate Republicans would follow, depending on how they want to bet. The State GOP orgs would go absolutely wild and abandon the party with gusto - those are the real crazies who won't temper themselves with such trivialities as getting elected. The RNC would be in a fucked up situation where they tried to give Trump anything he pleased and he just told them to get out of his house.

MAGA Party probably would not succeed, but it would have deeply concerning similarities to the rise of the Nazi Party - they never had majoritarian support either, and even the current GOP works by turning a minority vote into an unshakable majority. It would most certainly make the NeverTrumpers radicalize, though in what manner I can't say for sure - probably towards "give up on life".

Of course, much of this is moot if the wolves come for Trump, be that in debts or prosecution.

[LordBaal]

All that sounds awful for a lot of people.

[Loud Whispers]

Google admits to running experiments which remove media sites from its search results. This shit is why monopolies are illegal, now if only someone enforced the bloody law...

Anyways posting this here in Ameripol as a continuation of the thread topic "if you don't like it just make your own."