On an unrelated point, I agree with Arx. I don't know when calling religous people 'cat-lickers' and zealots became the cool thing to do in this thread, but frankly I'm not into it.
I have to agree with this, sadly. While I don't think offense was meant, humor often fails to land when it's a majority opinion making fun of the minority.
It's also both wrong and unproductive to call all pro-lifers stupid. Very many very intelligent people believe in that cause. I know it's supposed to be a shorthand for attacking the position, but there is a very important difference between attacking positions and attacking people. They often take offense when their positions are attacked. We shouldn't make the same conflation.
Arrogant tone-policing aside, this is a very emotional topic. I am horrified and disgusted at the idea of preventing any abortions, and would love to speak from emotion about how... wrong it is, and even speculate as to how anyone could possibly justify it to themselves.
But as Caesar seemed to say when discussing the Catiline Conspiracy, anger isn't the basis for good decisions.Also, while bants are fun and all, they really make me uncomfortable when the sides are so lopsided. It's one thing to jeer at abortion-protesters in person, it's different to group up on people here. (Fascists and others who argue in bad faith are fair game. That's not what I see here.)
All I'm going to add is this question: Why is it orders of magnitude more difficult to get an adoption than it is to get an abortion?
I think this is an excellent question, particularly when you look at how difficult it is for LGBTQ couples especially. I don't agree that all pro-lifers are stupid, but
as a political demographic they're literally zealots and do not extend the same human rights they indignantly demand. Where's our "right to a family"?
As I've said before, I do think that making abortion illegal is a non-starter, because people will find a way to get an abortion regardless. Aside: I'm going to bet that, throughout history, you have a significant fraction of abortions performed because the family of the girl forced her to to save face, rather than the girl choosing it freely. If you extend this out, I would bet that a vast majority of abortions are because of "stigma" associated with having a child out of wedlock. I would hypothesize that is the number one reason, even above "how can I afford it". Because I tell you what, my grandparents couldn't "afford" to have their 10 kids, and my parents couldn't "afford" to have their mere 3 kids.
Anyway I digress... the way you fix "abortion" is to remove the stigma associated with having children (consider: "It will destroy your career" is a social statement that basically says that having a child will hold you back, somehow make you "less than" women who don't have children because look at them they have a higher paying career, and you chose to be a "mom" haha. Yes I have heard people look at my wife strangely because she chose to stop working when our kids were young, and now that they're in school she's started working again.)
For women / couples that really don't think they are capable of raising a child, society should make adoption much much easier. We should be subsidizing that as much or more than we do abortions.
This is an interesting and nuanced take. I agree completely that adoption should be easier all-around, including for cishet couples. I think getting orphans into good homes is a goal that almost everybody is behind,
except for certain religious groups that are quietly obstructionist for purely bigoted reasons. They disgrace the pro-life movement by harming orphans. *They* only deserve to be called pro-birth, in my opinion.
As for the practical argument that mothers will get abortions one way or another: While I agree (as does the data), it doesn't make abortion a right. Abortion IS a right, but not because people will always do it.
But I think it's worth pointing out that pro-birthers (sic) are aware of how many extra miscarriages happen when abortion is outlawed. Their response in the states has been to legislate, on a state level, subjecting people who just suffered *miscarriages* to criminal investigations.
What could justify doing that to someone who just had a miscarriage? It's heinous. Our system (supposedly) doesn't allow traumatizing so many innocent people even to catch a "killer".
I wonder when they'll criminalize hysterectomies. This cannot be tolerated. But there's a difference between being wrong, doing wrong, and doubling down on wrong.
Worry not, the mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell.
This will literally never get old. I love Japan just for that game.