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[Maximum Spin]

Well, I would say people suffer from prejudice, and siege mentality is a form of prejudice - one is overly defensive unconsciously. And the answer is that, like any prejudice, even if you treat someone as human and try and get through the shell of unconscious response modes, they're still going to be impacted by their biases. You can work around it, yes, but it makes changing minds and winning people over much harder. It's hard to talk someone who's worried about democrats raising taxes on them (even though they're in a bracket that wouldn't be affected) about how trump's administration has been an overall negative for them. (See: my family)

It gets worse when they're deathly afraid of "socialism".

Long story short, siege mentality removes the depth and breadth of any possible discussion, because you have to avoid the inherent defensiveness at play.

Edit: a good example is someone who distrusts CNN automatically because they've misreported about trump before, but trusts Fox news automatically.

Do you see how in your language here you are treating people as machines whose legitimate feelings and opinions are bugs to "work around" and "avoid"? Even the concept of "changing minds and winning people over" should not be your goal, your goal should be to engage in an honest open discussion as equals. It should be just as likely that your own mind might be changed as the reverse. If you're just trying to find the levers to work, of course you're not going to get anywhere.

[RedKing]

Meh, fuck those people. I am under no obligation to spend three hours slowly, patiently and cautiously coaxing a rabid badger out of its hole to prove that I am not trying to eat it.

If they want to live in their paranoid delusions, let them -- as long as they stay out of the way. For my part, I kinda hope the Boogaloo boys try to get frisky after Trump loses, so that there's a legitimate reason to remove that tumor from society. But that's me -- I recognize not everyone else is as eager for blood, and that's a good thing.

Also, this made me laugh this morning:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/putin-rejects-trump-s-criticism-hunter-biden-s-business-n1244731
Poor Trumpy...jilted at the end by even his closest ally.
Vlad's a survivor -- he can read the writing on the wall and knows who he's going to have to be dealing with in a few months.

[Doomblade187]

Meh, fuck those people. I am under no obligation to spend three hours slowly, patiently and cautiously coaxing a rabid badger out of its hole to prove that I am not trying to eat it.

I'm bad at time management and feel an obligation to use my centrist upbringing for good. ;P

[Maximum Spin]

Vlad's a survivor -- he can read the writing on the wall and knows who he's going to have to be dealing with in a few months.

I am super confident that this is going to age really well.

[dragdeler]

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[scriver]

Meh, fuck those people. I am under no obligation to spend three hours slowly, patiently and cautiously coaxing a rabid badger out of its hole to prove that I am not trying to eat it.

I'm bad at time management and feel an obligation to use my centrist upbringing for good. ;P

Nah, what you have is a case of empathy for your fellow man.

[sluissa]

It's frustrating watching this back and forth of who gets to be more offended of the words the other has to say.

Reasonable discussion is dead. It simply doesn't exist anymore. I used to try. It gets nothing but either hatred returned, or cowardly grudging partial admittance of a point that gets forgotten as soon as they're back in their echo chambers. It's impossible to have a discussion when everyone believes they're 100% right beyond any form of doubt and can find people who will back them up on that no matter how crazy their opinion is. Again, I'll refer you to the Flat Earthers. They exist simply because they're a group and they back each other up against any outside criticism.

That goes for everyone as well. Right, left, even outspoken centrists. Everyone has their own cult, everyone believes their own facts. Everyone has cherry picked selective bits of evidence to back them up. People may be correct on individual issues, but nobody has an accurate picture of the whole and I simply don't think we'll ever reach that as a country, given how big, how diverse, and isolated everyone and everything is.

But saying that I have to admit I might be wrong or else labelled as a hypocrite, so maybe I'm just a pessimist.

Back to "actual politics".

Matt Gaetz, everyone's favorite Northwest Florida Trumpette seen cavorting with the Proud Boys.

Not really anything surprising, not really anything important on a nationwide stage. But kind of disturbing none the less.

[scriver]

I don't have a cult because I am 110% lonely

I am my cult

[delphonso]

I'm just a blue boyster cult.

[Doomblade187]

Wait there's a little gem in that article: Matt Gaetz has a podcast, but it's called "Hot Takes with Matt Gaetz". I just think that's great.

[dragdeler]

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[Doomblade187]

You can listen to Gaetz's podcast 'Hot Takes with Matt Gaetz' in its entirety here.

[Bumber]

Hot Takes with Matt Gaetz

[Max™]

For the record folks, Spin is spinning a line of bullshit with that garbage about "maybe take the time to engage people you disagree with and see if you can help them understand whatever it is you're certain they're wrong about" and either doesn't know or doesn't care that it is literally page 1 of the current right-wing "how to own the liberals" playbook: act like you can be convinced to change your mind to waste their time.

These aren't my peers, these aren't misguided individuals worth taking the time out to help see the error of their ways.

These are fucking fascists rooting for their wannabe authoritarian bitchbaby because they hate everyone they're told to hate and look forward with glee to the possibility of getting to hurt and or kill said hated enemies.

A few years ago that may have seemed like exaggeration, but you and I have seen these nazi fuckers cheering on shitheads like Rittenhouse for getting to live out their violent fantasies, there's no reasoning with someone who is that far gone.

Just because you're not willing to label them as your enemy, that doesn't mean they will do you the same courtesy. They can have their bullshit last stand and get smacked down after their fat orange bitchbaby loses, or they can keep being open and proud about what shitty people they are so the rest of us can respond appropriately and leave them out of society, or they can shut the fuck up and work their asses off to reform their image and settle for being tarnished forever with an orange stain but get to play with the rest of us as long as they follow the rules... and also they're always goalie and their mom has to bring the snacks.

[Madman198237]

1. Saying that other people are like you and potentially able to be convinced is not incorrect or a bald-faced lie or whatever.
2. Not everyone on the "wrong" side of the political line compared to you is literally a "fascist" and full of hate and etc. etc. etc. wants to commit violence etc. etc. etc.
3. No, just because they hold one or more political ideas differently from you does NOT, in fact, make them somehow lesser than yourself or whatever, Max.

Oh, and, also, why do you think there's a "playbook" for this that the average person knows or cares about enough? Do you think that everyone right of center goes to Evil Fascist School and takes Liberal Owning 101???

Stop assuming everyone not like you is homogeneous, please, it does nobody any favors and is one of the easiest ways to end reasoned debate and just get to the bit where everyone hates everyone.