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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4223827 times)

Naturegirl1999

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37620 on: June 27, 2020, 08:31:24 am »

Question:Why are we fighting Afghanistan?
200 years of making sure Russia doesn't fight Afghanistan
Fighting a non-enemy sounds like a waste of time, life, resources and money.
The primary aim of modern warfare is to use up the products of the machine without raising the general standard of living
why wouldn’t a nation want the general standard of living increased?
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scriver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37621 on: June 27, 2020, 08:33:57 am »

Question:Why are we fighting Afghanistan?

You are no longer fighting Afghanistan. You are now fighting in Afghanistan
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martinuzz

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37622 on: June 27, 2020, 08:35:28 am »

why wouldn’t a nation want the general standard of living increased?
The worker drones would be less inclined to work themselves to death to be able to afford their coffins.
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

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http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

dragdeler

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37623 on: June 27, 2020, 08:42:44 am »

-
« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 01:28:07 pm by dragdeler »
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Loud Whispers

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37624 on: June 27, 2020, 09:11:24 am »

Fighting a non-enemy sounds like a waste of time, life, resources and money. If they weren’t planning to attack us, then we needn’t have started the combat. Given what we’re doing, them becoming an enemy is understandable, all fighting neutral parties does is make enemies we wouldn’t have made otherwise
Yes, it is a waste of time, life, resources and money. Yes, it makes enemies out of friends. No, it will not stop. USA needs to surround Russia, because they may be an enemy. Russia may be an enemy, because the USA surrounds Russia. At least the Sino-Murrican rivalry has more basis in credible threat

sluissa

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37625 on: June 27, 2020, 09:32:15 am »

I had an idea, and I wanted your guys' input on it: what about "Democracy by Accretion" ?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Long-ish rant on congressional apportionment a the 17th amendment to follow.


Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Rolan7

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37626 on: June 27, 2020, 10:03:18 am »

The primary aim of modern warfare is to use up the products of the machine without raising the general standard of living
This is such a perfect summary of 1984 that I really should have recognized it as being from 1984.
Might add it to my sig though, it's painfully true.

As to why it happens, basically this:
why wouldn’t a nation want the general standard of living increased?
The worker drones would be less inclined to work themselves to death to be able to afford their coffins.
People who are overworked have less time to figure out *why* they're overworked.  I don't believe the vast majority of conservative voters are greedy or inherently bigoted.  They're worked to desperation by wealthy interests, then those same interests bombard them with propaganda which blames various Others.  Other nations, other ethnicities, other sexualities - whatever works.

With a healthy amount of leisure time they'd be likely to see the barrage of "two minute hate" segments for what they are.  So instead they're worked much longer than in European countries, and additionally bombarded with the messaging during their scant leisure hours.  Tailor-made television and highly addictive social media reinforcing whatever narrative the victim responds best to. 

The wealthy have always played workers against each other (particularly in America, look at the Civil War South...) because it's very effective and profitable.
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martinuzz

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37627 on: June 27, 2020, 10:46:25 am »

And like Noam Chomsky said, we should cherish our unemployed, for they just might be the only ones with enough time to actually read up on and have knowledge of what's going on in the world.
EDIT: (although that gets harder and harder with more and more decent and semi-decent media being locked behind paywalls the unemployed cannot afford)
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 10:49:36 am by martinuzz »
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

scriver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37628 on: June 27, 2020, 10:55:44 am »

So what you're saying is that the unemployable paranoid conspiracy nut down the street is actually more well-informed and right than us?
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martinuzz

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37629 on: June 27, 2020, 10:56:50 am »

Not nescessarily but he does have more opportunity to be well informed.  Mileage may vary with the individual
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

martinuzz

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37630 on: June 27, 2020, 11:05:19 am »

You are no longer fighting Afghanistan. You are now fighting in Afghanistan
This just in the news:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/26/us/politics/russia-afghanistan-bounties.html
Inb4 Russia declared terrorist organisation and invasion starts
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37631 on: June 27, 2020, 11:13:57 am »

This is why we need improvements in education more than anything else - even though we have to wait a generation to see its benefits.

I suddenly had a realization: NCLB from 20 years ago is now demonstrably showing up - have people forgotten this? That's an entire generation educated in that system which was focused on test scores and trying to force kids into an age bracket instead of teaching kids what is best for them according to their abilities and teaching critical thinking and how to get along with your neighbors despite their differences.

I do feel bad for those of you in the US who were educated in that system. It's notably and objectively different from the system in which I was educated in the 20 year period prior to that.  My education was characterized by giving us tools to make our own way in the world, where it seems now education is about how to fit in with the world created by others.

Warning: heavy US-based generalizations here, yes individual experiences are different.

This shows up in many places - the generation divide in attitudes toward student loans, opinions about things like welfare vs workfare, UBI, "universal" government providing things.  When I grew up - right or wrong - we were expected to make for ourselves, and if we got things from others that was nice but not to be expected.  This is why you rarely see 40-60 year olds saying "the government should be giving us X" because we all worked to get what we have.  But this did have the side effect of screwing the 20-40 year olds of today, which don't have that much because the current 40-60s were overworked.  And this leaves the 0-20s of today who-knows-where, because their parents (the 20-40s) have very little and are stuck with both the weak worth ethic with which they were educated and systematic effects that, even if they had a work ethic, make it very difficult to put that work ethic to use.

There is no simple magic fix to this - it will take a generation and it's going to be hard work. And that's even without war, famine, and pestilence rearing their heads.
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Karnewarrior

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37632 on: June 27, 2020, 11:43:06 am »

For the record, we're in Afghanistan because, over a decade ago, it had the Al-Queada HQ in it. See, they blew up two very large financial centers in a populated American city, and when the Afghani government was asked to assist us in the op, they said no... Which was kind of predictable because it would've been some donkey-ass optics for them anyway.

So we invaded. Then, because of insurgents and because Al-Quesadilla got really good at Hitman: Middle East Version, it took us over 10 years to actually kill the guy who ordered the attack. We're there now mostly out of momentum - it looks terrible and is terrible to leave the country with the way it is now, where people are basically guaranteed to get taken over by a tyrant of some stripe, so we sit there and do a bit of tyrannizing ourselves trying to help, like a toddler smacking a broken motorbike with an inflatable hammer, trying to convince himself that if he fixes it daddy will come home.

Basically, we had a decent reason to be there, but it was botched at the beginning and everyone in office is too incompetent to fix it or is stopped by malicious interests when they are.
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MrRoboto75

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37633 on: June 27, 2020, 11:44:33 am »

Wages never increased since those 40-60's entered the workforce back-in-the-day.  Meanwhile companies want to rely on public and secondary education to provide all the work training they don't want to pay for, as shareholder profits must increase indefinitely.

Sad fact is neither the gov nor private companies want to provide X for their citizens/employees.
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sluissa

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37634 on: June 27, 2020, 11:57:23 am »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
People who are overworked have less time to figure out *why* they're overworked.  I don't believe the vast majority of conservative voters are greedy or inherently bigoted.  They're worked to desperation by wealthy interests, then those same interests bombard them with propaganda which blames various Others.  Other nations, other ethnicities, other sexualities - whatever works.

With a healthy amount of leisure time they'd be likely to see the barrage of "two minute hate" segments for what they are.  So instead they're worked much longer than in European countries, and additionally bombarded with the messaging during their scant leisure hours.  Tailor-made television and highly addictive social media reinforcing whatever narrative the victim responds best to. 

The wealthy have always played workers against each other (particularly in America, look at the Civil War South...) because it's very effective and profitable.

I want to agree, but then I see all these retired people who, with more time on their hands, simply sink deeper into that hole that is cable news and become even more extreme in their viewpoints. (In my experience this usually leans conservative, but I know it swings the other direction as well.) One by one I've seen family members and older friends whom I loved and respected at one point, test that love and respect more and more by becoming ever more outspoken of horrible opinions and views.
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