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[Trekkin]

This is supposed to take years and need to be done all day every day, though. You can get that sort of dataset, but having to confine the patients within camera view makes things much more expensive.

Ideally you could find a chemical marker that would linger enough to serve as a monitor of overall pressure over a weekly or monthly period. Parts of the LARG/GEFH1 force response pathway would work, I think, and some of them could conceivably show up on a noninvasive brush biopsy.

Figuring out which part and how to do the quantification, I leave to someone actually getting paid for this.

[wierd]

Quite right!

As long as the measured marker does not introduce some other variable, it would indeed probably work better.

Nattering about how to do the experiment is outside the bounds of arguing if an experiment is possible or not-- If we can do the former, then the latter is moot.

If somebody wants to do this experiment, the barrier to entry is pretty low (compared to some other experiments needing replication.)

[Frumple]

Weren't folks also discussing how the barrier for entry might not actually be that low, due to the established dentist et al field vigorously shitting on people interested in trying?

[Trekkin]

Weren't folks also discussing how the barrier for entry might not actually be that low, due to the established dentist et al field vigorously shitting on people interested in trying?

That's the theory, but Mew claims he was expelled from the British Orthodontic Society because of his hundreds of Youtube videos and social media posts that have, in his version of the BOS' words, potential to mislead the public.

So he's being shat on, if you like, for presenting this to the public (and apparently coaching people in it) without proof it's effective, which is certainly not something we want doctors to be doing. Public disclosure is the last step of the process.

Besides, even if Dentists Don't Want You To Know, there are ways of getting a study like this done without needing the approval of any dentist. Mew just didn't know or care how.

[Frumple]

Mostly just noting the possibility of a relatively low barrier of entry not actually being low. A frictionless 80 degree wall is relatively easier to climb than a 90 degree one, probably, but that don't make it easy. Dude not knowing ways around official resistance would be a kinda' textbook example of a barrier of entry. Not caring wouldn't particularly be, but eh.

[SalmonGod]

Bullying at the intersection of science and capitalism to protect reputations, careers, and profits is a thing that definitely happens.  It's literally the reason for USA's #1 health crisis of the last 40 years.  Not to mention plenty of other shady shit that goes on in the health/food/pharmaceutical realm.  We live in a time where I think it's reasonable for people to make up their own minds about who to listen to in regards to how they should care for themselves.  Because frankly there's predators and frauds everywhere.  The people who control the money behind the business of making medicine literally publicly question whether making effective cures for chronic diseases is a sustainable business model.  While others deliberately engineer drug addiction epidemics and then turn around a while later to sell alleviation.

I don't disagree with the notion of respect for proper science and wanting things approached properly wherever possible.  But that only works when the institutions responsible share that value sincerely, instead of just taking advantage of it as a gullibility to capitalize on.

[nenjin]

There isn't any concrete evidence even that daily flossing actually helps.

But dentists push that, and numerous other things that weren't "rigorously tested, vetted and peer reviewed" all the time. Orthodontists devise new pieces of head gear all the time to put on people that look like torture devices, and they charge people for this privilege, despite no research, no publications and no peer review because their industry doesn't indulge in those things the way regular medicine does.

None of that is considered "grossly negligent." Yet when a guy tries to give people things to do that don't cost them money and may improve their quality of life and makes it publicly available for free, oh, NOW suddenly he needs a 44 year longitudinal study with 4000 cohorts and a multimillion dollar research budget so he can say something without getting his license ripped.

It's a case of "do as I say, not as I do" from his own industry. If he were selling a $3k piece of headgear that requires repeated visits over a decade, no one would be batting an eye because that preserves the status quo.

The idea that putting your tongue on the roof of your mouth is grossly negligent sounds like complete and utter hysteria dressed up as scientific conscientiousness, from the least scientifically conscientious discipline out there! If he was saying shit like "put a piece of steel between your teeth and bite down on it all night while you sleep", yeah, that's the kind of claim that can do harm. But simply telling you where you to put your own tongue in your own mouth on a daily basis and the loose research he has done is enough to at least start on something.

Hard to do fucking research when people are trying to steal your livelihood though.

[Mephisto]

There isn't any concrete evidence even that daily flossing actually helps.

There's no evidence that it's actively harmful either.

You can actively fuck up your eyes by rubbing them too hard. A bunch of people in various Asian countries fucked up their teeth by getting fake braces installed. And the anti-vaxx movement is actively fucking up children worldwide. The general public is not equipped to make these decisions without some form of exterior input. Given the complete lack of actual studies, how certain are you that putting pressure on the roof of your mouth all day every day for a month won't do anything bad?

[nenjin]

I dunno. Maybe the entire span of the human species and the fact many people already practice this kind of posture without needing to be told to do so?

"Fake braces", "Pushing your own eyeballs in" and "Anti-vaccers" are in no way related.

Now he if was like "staple your tongue to the roof of your mouth for maximum posture", then yes, that'd be a claim that's suspect.

[Enemy post]

The impeachment vote is today, isn't it?

[JoshuaFH]

God, all I want for Christmas is Trump impeached and thrown out on his ass.

[Enemy post]

I don't think you should get your hopes up. He's probably doomed in the Democrat-controlled House, but removal requires a 2/3rds majority in the Senate, which the Republicans control.

[JoshuaFH]

If the Republicans don't realize that he's a living tumor that is poisoning the entire party, and everything else, then I don't know what could possibly convince them.

[nenjin]

I'll just settle for him not being re-elected, at this point.

[Telgin]

Same.

If the Republicans don't realize that he's a living tumor that is poisoning the entire party, and everything else, then I don't know what could possibly convince them.

While I agree, the problem here is that from their perspective he's still very popular among their constituents, so supporting him is still a net gain.  Any harm caused is weighed against that and so far judged to be less than the benefits.