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[MetalSlimeHunt]

What's being described is a Flex Savings Account, which is indeed useless save for giving you early access to the yearly contribution if you "win" the sick lottery. Doesn't carry over much or at all.

HSA are still bullshit of course, since they require you have a high deductible to even open.

Medicare For All is and remains the only solution for not eventually being left on a curb to suffocate. Not quite today, but soon.

[Frumple]

I don't have one (or insurance, or any other sort of coverage, for that matter ), but the one I've been directly exposed to indeed ate at least most of what you had leftover at the end of the year. Iirc there was some sort ot rollover, but it was capped at a fairly small figure. Maybe it was a flex whatever, but it was calling itself a HSA. Smelled like utter horseshit and I couldn't wrap my head around why people were talking about it with any tone except undiluted scorn.

[nenjin]

I do have to pay some obviously bullshit administrative and document fees every quarter, but it comes out to like $20.

As my work explained it, and I'll admit I'm not super savvy, is that it supplements our not-so-great insurance so that it balances out to be like we have insurance that isn't trying to fuck us in the ass. We're like a 25 person company. *shrug*

Ironic because I'm literally about to walk out the door to go to the doctor's office to deal with the goddamn super flu, and whatever my insurance doesn't cover, my HSA will. That's what it's for. I could easily wipe out my HSA and have to dive in to savings even after insurance in the event of an actual medical procedure (sinus surgery cost me/family about $8k after insurance, an ER visit and stitching on my finger was several hundred to me after insurance), but I still get more value spending out of my HSA because it went in tax free than if I had to pay everything straight out of my savings.

My employer match also makes it a good deal.....well, as good as one can expect from American healthcare.

[sluissa]

Family member got looped into a HSA as part of their retirement where they changed the terms on it after the fact.

Sold it as a fairly decent deal. Tax free, good interest rate, a matching program on the first certain amount.

Afterwards the terms changed. Taxes had to be paid, and there was no option to leave it to anyone after death. So unless they ended up spending it all, the bank kept the balance. And there was no way to take the money back out except for medical expenses. Pretty large number of people got looped into it, I think it went to court, but they didn't budge on anything except the option to name a beneficiary to inherit it after death. That at least was apparently a step too far.

[Kagus]

Meanwhile, I have a maximum healthcare expense set by the government... After spending a little under $300 on meds, treatments and appointments, I get an exception card and the government foots the bill for the rest of the year. If I accidentally pay for something while having already gotten the card, it gets automatically paid back to my account after a few days.

There are certain things that aren't covered by the basic card, but most of the usual stuff? ...yeah.

[McTraveller]

HSAs should roll over; they just require a high-deductible plan (although I laugh, because "low" deductible plans are still like $2500 a year).  Deductibles in health care are crap anyway; I mean I think my premiums (my portion + employer portion) are like $12,000 a year, and you pay that even if you don't have any health issues.

FSAs do indeed suck; no rollover, more limited spending.

@Kagus - holy crap, effectively a $300/year out of pocket limit?  My plan has an annual out of pocket max of $11,000.

[Iduno]

Meanwhile, I have a maximum healthcare expense set by the government... After spending a little under $300 on meds, treatments and appointments, I get an exception card and the government foots the bill for the rest of the year. If I accidentally pay for something while having already gotten the card, it gets automatically paid back to my account after a few days.

There are certain things that aren't covered by the basic card, but most of the usual stuff? ...yeah.

Damn. I dropped like $11k last year just on work-related injuries (so insurance wouldn't pay, and the employer fucked me on). Because insurance ignored those costs, they didn't count against my out-of-pocket expenses.

[Kagus]

2019's limit was $252.77, to be specific. And this isn't an insurance plan; I don't have health insurance. It's just how the health system works. And yes, that covers psychiatric care/meds.

Doesn't cover shit for dental though! Oral health is obviously just for rich people.


EDIT: Before you get too excited, I should probably mention that I pay roughly 30% income tax. And that's because I'm in a low-earner category on account of living off disability.

[Mephisto]

I have dental insurance.

Fuck you royally if you go out of network (like, say, what could happen if you have a lovely dentist that does great work and then you switch employers) - we'll take a look at what they did and then draft up what we think they should have done and pay out based on even less of a fraction of that. Also fuck you if you need certain types of "child" work done as an adult. Additionally, fuck you if you need more than $1200-ish of work done in a year. Wiped that last one out with one crown, basically.

[Telgin]

Yeah, I was born without two adult teeth, which works out to about $3000 of bridge work I need done that insurance isn't going to remotely cover.  I keep telling the dentist I'll deal with it later, with the expectation that later will probably be never.

[nenjin]

Re: Dental work.

Dunno if anyone has heard of Mewing but it's basically a technique where you keep your tongue pressed against the roof of your mouth. It's basically a facial muscle strengthening exercise that may help reshape your face, and by extension, the set of your teeth.

It's called that because it was proposed by Dr. John Mew. He basically said that instead of feeding the insanely expensive (and profitable) orthodontics industry that there were things people might be able to do to affect crooked teeth, messed up jaw lines and all this other stuff.

It basically made him a pariah in the orthodontics industry. His son, Dr. Mike Mew, is trying to carry on this father's work and at the start of next year he's essentially going on trial in his field where they are threatening to strip him of his practice for even suggesting such a thing could be beneficial. I just happened to catch a talk by him on Youtube out of the blue.

Sorry, all this talk of dentistry made me think of it. The field of orthodontics isn't even that old, merely 40 or so years. Yet it's already become an insanely profitable one. It's not proven that mewing actually helps but considering they've only been doing studies on for the last few years, it's hard to say what it's long term efficacy is. On the other hand, we are starting to see what the impact of braces and retainers and such on people's faces is.

Doesn't fix actual tooth issues like missing teeth or crowns or any of that, and it may just be quackery. But at least it's quackery that doesn't cost you five goddamn figures and a shit load of pain.

[smjjames]

Re: Dental work.

Dunno if anyone has heard of Mewing but it's basically a technique where you keep your tongue pressed against the roof of your mouth. It's basically a facial muscle strengthening exercise that may help reshape your face.

It's called that because it was proposed by Dr. John Mew. He basically said that instead of feeding the insanely expensive (and profitable) orthodontics industry that there were things people might be able to do to affect crooked teeth, messed up jaw lines and all this other stuff.

It basically made him a pariah in the orthodontics industry. His son, Dr. Mike Mew, is trying to carry on this father's work and at the start of next year he's essentially going on trial in his field where they are threatening to strip him of his practice for even suggesting such a thing could be beneficial. I just happened to catch a talk by him on Youtube out of the blue.

Sorry, all this talk of dentistry made me think of it. The field of orthodontics isn't even that old, merely 40 or so years. Yet it's already become an insanely profitable one. It's not proven that mewing actually helps but considering they've only been doing studies on for the last few years, it's hard to say what it's long term efficacy is. On the other hand, we are starting to see what the impact of braces and retainers and such on people's faces is.

Doesn't fix actual tooth issues like missing teeth or crowns or any of that, and it may just be quackery. But at least it's quackery that doesn't cost you five goddamn figures and a shit load of pain.

Sounds like total BS, I just tried it and the tongue is the only muscle that actually moves and given how long it takes for braces/retainers to do their thing, you'd probably need to do it 24/7 in order to see whether it actually does anything, which unfortunately, leaves out talking, eating, and drinking.

Anyhow, back to politics? Though I guess it's tangentially related because healthcare.

[nenjin]

That's the whole point. Actively engaging your tongue to touch the roof of your mouth as a daily way of being, instead of letting your jaw hang slack all the time. I guess if you talk and eat 16 out of every 24 hours then yeah, you might not have time for it.

It's like maintaining good posture, except with your mouth instead of your back and shoulders. People who have garbage posture complain that maintaining good posture is hard because their muscles aren't used to it. And poor generic posture has a shit ton of knock on health (and aesthetic) effects.

I mean....slack-jawed yokel, anyone?

Dr. Mike Mew does maintain that he has spent a considerable amount of unbilled time coaching people and it has taken years, but some of the evidence he provides does look like it's having an effect.

[Trekkin]

Anyhow, back to politics? Though I guess it's tangentially related because healthcare.

It's also got all the hallmarks of a conspiracy theory, which is what American politics runs on now. We've got:

1. A bunch of greedy corporate doctors (Who I can only assume collectively constitute "Big Jaw") suppressing the lone heroic voice of medical genius because money and evil and so forth.
2. Youtube.
3. "Even if it doesn't work, at least it's not expensive"
4. A clear implication that if it doesn't make sense to you, there must be something wrong with you.
5. Irrelevant but touching details as an invitation to engage in special pleading.
6. Things that read a lot like relevant scientific articles but are either not peer-reviewed or not specifically addressing whether the thing works. Sloppy science, in other words.
7. No actual evidence.

[nenjin]

1. A bunch of greedy corporate doctors (Who I can only assume collectively constitute "Big Jaw") suppressing the lone heroic voice of medical genius because money and evil and so forth.

Because the Medical Industry has never done anything except in the best interests of its patients.

2. Youtube.

Because if someone put a conference talk they did on youtube, it's automatically discredited.

3. "Even if it doesn't work, at least it's not expensive"

Compared to what some people have paid for dental work? What kind of moron wouldn't at least try it, if for nothing else as a supplement to orthodontic work?

4. A clear implication that if it doesn't make sense to you, there must be something wrong with you.

Yes, if something doesn't make sense to you, there's a zero percent chance that it's your misunderstanding and not the material itself that is at issue.

5. Irrelevant but touching details as an invitation to engage in special pleading.

Not sure what you mean by special pleading, but he can't in good conscious charge people money for a study he's doing where the patient is doing all the work. What an entire industry might be guilty of, he surely is guilty of?

6. Things that read a lot like relevant scientific articles but are either not peer-reviewed or not specifically addressing whether the thing works. Sloppy science, in other words.

His dad was actually cited as the epitome of sloppy science by his detractors, yeah. They actually destroyed his career, as they are angling to do the same to his son. But if you maintain #1 as "just another conspiracy" then yes, I guess you can go with that. For something that does no harm, and costs no money, it seems odd that the British Orthodontics Society and other institutions came after him so aggressively. Multiple times even, when he was cleared to continue practicing previously. You could make the argument that such advice prevents people from seeking legitimate treatment is doing harm, and that's a reason to revoke his license. Then again, when you can give a possible option to people who may not be able to afford thousands of dollars of corrective work, it's hard to call that harmful when, if it doesn't work, they'll probably seek standard treatment anyways.

Basic advice like "chew more gum to increase your jaw muscles for corrective action" is apparently radical enough to get your license pulled in Britain, so free-thinking and flexible are their institutional bodies.

7. No actual evidence.

His actual talk.

I didn't find any peer reviewed research in a quick search, but I don't have access to any periodicals where they may have been published. And even he admits more research and time is needed to see how his theories play out.

I'm not saying I believe it whole heartedly. But for the way they destroyed his father's career in Orthodontics and are coming after his now, it made me stop and think. And though I don't have a 3,400 study meta analysis to back up this supposition, the idea that your mouth works the way your rest of your body does when it comes to posture doesn't seem like frickin' rocket science, black magic or deep medicine conspiracy.