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[Rolan7]

I sympathize with that and want to add that people shouldn't just abstain.  Abstaining from a corrupt election process (like ours) *can* be an effective protest, but in our situation it is not.  Almost half the eligible population is already abstaining, but that's just treated as normal.  It's dramatically more effective to support a candidate who has no chance.  It shows that you actually care enough to "throw your vote away", and brings attention to how broken the system is.  Someone who merely doesn't vote *appears* like someone who doesn't care.

Edit: For one thing, it lowers the "percentage of the vote" the "real" candidates get.  That's a statistic that gets people worried far more than non-participation.

[Folly]

I'm hoping that my refusal to vote will demonstrate the inadequacies of our physical voting system. How can they seriously expect us to drag ourselves out of our homes, congregate in one location surrounded by massive crowds of other voters, wait in line all day just to scratch our opinions on a piece of paper like cavemen, with no assurance that the sleep-deprived yokels who volunteered to tally this mess by hand will accurately interpret our messages.
This is the future, damnit! We deserve a phone voting app!

[Iduno]

This is the future, damnit! We deserve a phone voting app!

I'd say something about that being secure, but I've used the Diebold machines. A phone app thrown together over a weekend would probably be a step up.

[Telgin]

An app would absolutely engage more people, but the security would be a nightmare...

Not to mention that even if we solved that problem, there's no way something like that would ever materialize in the political climate of the US.  How could you prove you're a US citizen, the person who you say you are, etc?

[Trolldefender99]

A bit late, but Andrew Yang did #3 best in the last democrat debates according to CNN. He started off slow, but really kicked it off once he got going. He is my #1 choice, while Biden is my 2nd choice but he hasn't done very good in most of the debates.

I even donated to Andrew's campaign, not much cause I'm really poor but something at least. He has a lot of good ideas, and while it would mean taxes go up, his monthly income for everyone would benefit a TON of poor people like myself. I like the idea of taking rich peoples money and giving it to the poor. I can't even afford new eye glasses, a new PC or dental work at all and monthly income would help a ton with that. Not only that, but other places with a monthly income actually did BETTER and their economies grew a ton.

[Egan_BW]

This is the future, damnit! We deserve a phone voting app!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[SalmonGod]

An app would absolutely engage more people, but the security would be a nightmare...

Not to mention that even if we solved that problem, there's no way something like that would ever materialize in the political climate of the US.  How could you prove you're a US citizen, the person who you say you are, etc?

Isn't this the type of thing social security numbers were literally created for?

[Egan_BW]

No, it's the sort of thing social security numbers ended up being used for.

[Folly]

I'm not claiming that a voting app would be foolproof. But I do think that a smart team of programmers could come up with a system that is miles more secure than the hot mess we are using right now, and of course far more convenient for the users. And any problems that do arise could be identified and addressed far more readily than what we have now.

On topic: https://youtu.be/svEuG_ekNT0?t=478

[Telgin]

It's really interesting that the US doesn't have any kind of national ID card.  Especially considering how much people parrot the narrative about illegal immigrants getting free stuff from the government, I'm surprised more people aren't proposing some kind of free official ID and wanting that to be mandatory.  It seems like it would solve a lot of the issues people have over voter IDs as well.

What's the actual problem here?  Is it fundamental ideological opposition to the federal government having power?  Is it cost?  A fear that there's no realistic way to ensure everyone gets theirs?  Ideological opposition to the idea of tracking people (SSNs already largely do)?  Fear of voter suppression?  For the last one at least, it seems like a free ID for everyone who is a citizen should be a fair solution.  No muss over trying to scrounge up a driver's license or whatever your local state or county considers a valid ID.

The inability to distribute them seems like the real problem to me.  Especially if people were required to go to like a courthouse and request it, since many people never would, and it would take generations for newborns being issued new cards automatically to get close to 100% adoption.

I'm not claiming that a voting app would be foolproof. But I do think that a smart team of programmers could come up with a system that is miles more secure than the hot mess we are using right now, and of course far more convenient for the users. And any problems that do arise could be identified and addressed far more readily than what we have now.

It could be done, but it would be a massive undertaking.  The levels of verification, vetting and transparency needed to ensure something like this was not insanely broken would be very high.

In any case, it seems like inevitably we'll have to move toward something like this.  I can't see people writing on paper ballots in 200 years or even driving for an hour to go touch a computer screen somewhere else because their state refuses to update their voter registration that close to an election and I'm not bitter.

We'll have to have something like this one day, but I don't know what form it will ultimately take or how we'll gain confidence and trust in it. 

[smjjames]

The main problem is that Republicans haven't exactly been doing the voting ID stuff in good faith and there's the issue of states and lower manipulating it in a way that would further disadvantage minorities and the poor. Doing a national voter ID sounds good on paper, but there's the same issues unless you automatically give one at birth and retroactively give one to people still alive.

There's certainly other issues involved, I know it has come up from time to time on the thread, but a lot of it does come down to people not trusting the Republicans to not screw minorities, the poor, Democrats, or all three.

[hector13]

There are far too many points of failure in any kind of electronic voting system, including the ones already extant.

At least with a paper ballot, if your vote doesn't get counted it's because you fucked up more than anything else.

[Folly]

Why do you believe that your paper ballots are being counted at all? For all you know, that box you put it in could drop directly into an incinerator and someone could just be making up the voting numbers based on what they think sounds right. There's absolutely no way that anybody would know the difference.
At least with a digital voting system you would be able to log in at any time and verify that the server registered your vote, and accurately remembers who you voted for.

[Dunamisdeos]

Those same problems are also present in an electronic system.

Just because it's made of pixels doesn't mean people can't falsify it.

[Lord Shonus]

What's the actual problem here?  Is it fundamental ideological opposition to the federal government having power?  Is it cost?  A fear that there's no realistic way to ensure everyone gets theirs?  Ideological opposition to the idea of tracking people (SSNs already largely do)?  Fear of voter suppression?  For the last one at least, it seems like a free ID for everyone who is a citizen should be a fair solution.  No muss over trying to scrounge up a driver's license or whatever your local state or county considers a valid ID.

For many, the mere notion conjures up a notion of a jackbooted thug screaming "VERE ARE YOUR PAPERS, SCUM?!". Forcing everyone to have an ID is just a short step from requiring that everyone carry one at all times, and that is a notion that is anathema to a great many people here - many of which are backing the lawsuits and PR campaign against profiling and "If you can't prove yer a citizen, yer's an illegal!" arrests. The notion that you need to prove your age or that you have an operating licence for your vehicle is noncontroversial, but plenty of people who don't drive and are old enough that they're never mistaken for underage don't have ID and are perfectly happy without one.