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[scourge728]

I guess washington and lincoln?

you would be correct

[Iduno]

We'll just retroactively name Bernie the first executive of the American Communal Federation, thus making Trump a kind of Louis XVI figure.

I mean, not that he's not already the modern Louis XVI. The parallels are shocking.

I was thinking "autopsy of Charles II", but Louis works as well.

[McTraveller]

However the idea of natural markets for health care is ... dangerous. turning it into a "natural" "free market" style approach means we're leaving it up to normal folks to decide whether the treatments they're buying are real or snake oil.
... The point of a single-payer is that it levels the playing field without lowering standards and opening the floodgates for "alternative" treatments from any quack who can afford a stethescope.

I think that's a false dichotomy to some extent: "unregulated market" is not the opposite of "free market." I would say that a "controlled" market is the opposite of a free market.  So the question is if regulation results in control or if it just results in regulation - or to what extent, since there is reason to believe that any regulation does have some "control" element to it.

[smjjames]

I suppose randomly posting articles with minor context is my thing, now, but I think that this one's at least worth some discussion. I imagine the general premise- that we're presently fucked, and much of this fucked-ness has to do with "free market" idealism and a deference to experts to make all decisions, is rather agreeable.

Isn't 'fuck the experts' basically the Trumpian ideal? Also, while the article does talk about unity and trying to revive things, it doesn't talk about how to get around or deal with the fact that such progress is only going to happen when either one side has complete control of things or both sides care about fixing things, and right now, one side doesn't seem very interested in trying to turn things around. I don't see it happening while Trump is still President, maybe not even for some time after he leaves.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

The time of "belief in America" was no better than now - there was merely a silent violence which has now grown to be loud violence. America will be at peace when, and only when, the left is finally ascendant in this country. Then there is a chance at reconciliation, a chance at justice, a chance at fundamental progress...and until then there is none. And most people paying attention know this, which is why they try so desperately to avoid what they've known for the last fifty years.

Trump is nothing new for the right. Perot was just like him, as was Reagan. Against people like that, the only peace we'll ever have is destroying their ideals completely and ensuring they do not return in our lifetimes, or preferably ever. That is what peace looks like.

[sluissa]

The time of "belief in America" was no better than now - there was merely a silent violence which has now grown to be loud violence. America will be at peace when, and only when, the left is finally ascendant in this country. Then there is a chance at reconciliation, a chance at justice, a chance at fundamental progress...and until then there is none. And most people paying attention know this, which is why they try so desperately to avoid what they've known for the last fifty years.

Trump is nothing new for the right. Perot was just like him, as was Reagan. Against people like that, the only peace we'll ever have is destroying their ideals completely and ensuring they do not return in our lifetimes, or preferably ever. That is what peace looks like.

"War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength."

Really though, this "progress through violence" rhetoric isn't doing anyone any good.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

You're the one reading violence. I'm quite happy to accept the right-wing becoming a minority power for the next three generations without bloodshed.

[smjjames]

For that, see this other convenient article.

That one somehow seems to say that the problem will fix itself, or maybe more that it tends to revert back and it's cyclical.

The time of "belief in America" was no better than now - there was merely a silent violence which has now grown to be loud violence. America will be at peace when, and only when, the left is finally ascendant in this country. Then there is a chance at reconciliation, a chance at justice, a chance at fundamental progress...and until then there is none. And most people paying attention know this, which is why they try so desperately to avoid what they've known for the last fifty years.

Trump is nothing new for the right. Perot was just like him, as was Reagan. Against people like that, the only peace we'll ever have is destroying their ideals completely and ensuring they do not return in our lifetimes, or preferably ever. That is what peace looks like.

"War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength."

Really though, this "progress through violence" rhetoric isn't doing anyone any good.

You're the one reading violence. I'm quite happy to accept the right-wing becoming a minority power for the next three generations without bloodshed.

'Destroying their ideals' is a pretty violent way to put it, plus you're talking about a vast swath of people, this is the same kind of mistake Clinton made with the 'basket of deplorables' comment (yes, I know the comment itself got taken out of context, but still).

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I'm not a politician. The ideals of the America that Reagan built must be destroyed, because they are ideals of war and bigotry. It is a matter of survival for many.

Few people support the right. A fifth of the country at best. Once the system of mass disenfranchisement is dismantled that will become clear to everyone.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

The Republicans have no intention to compromise, and I doubt anybody under the age of 40 who doesn't support them today would even if they tried. It's almost laughable to imagine after these last twenty years. Boomer Democratic politicians want Republicans back on the path of paying them to lose, but nobody else does.

It's long past time to recognize the Republican Party for what it is - an enemy to all people who's idea of freedom isn't working themselves to death for a well-policed suburban paycheck for 60 years. The fantasy of a reasonable right-wing has always been just that, fantasy.

Besides, it's pretty obvious to me that the next big hit of the GOP will be ecofascism. Some European far-right have already started rehearsing the rhetoric, but it'll make its way over here soon enough.

[smjjames]

I wonder if the Whigs behaved similarily before they splintered into various parties.

Anyways, the public impeachment hearings begin....

[Doomblade187]

I am curious what ecofascism usually manifests as. I know some of the rhetoric (very genocidal sounding, tbh), but am unfamiliar with real world movements. (Let's not link them here though)

[smjjames]

I'm wondering myself how it would be different from climate denialism. I've only heard of 'ecofascism' as something thrown at environmentalists, sometimes Greenpeace in particular, so, I don't know what that entails over in Europe.

[Cheesy Honkers]

It exists. It's basically hardline nationalism, fascism, racism with concern for the enviroment. Oftentimes it blames either Jews or Asians (or both) for the enviromental catastrophe, while it blames miscegenation and immigration for social issues.

[scourge728]

So the same thing as before, just reskinned?