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[Naturegirl1999]

I thought the reason we stopped using paper balloots was the easiness of whch they could be forged, though machines can be hacked, what if everyone's thoughts were connected to a thought collector which would count how many thoughts, one from each mind, the canidate the mind votes for, minds would not be connected to specific bodies. I know this can't happen yet, but could it work if we could?

[Doomblade187]

I thought the reason we stopped using paper balloots was the easiness of whch they could be forged, though machines can be hacked, what if everyone's thoughts were connected to a thought collector which would count how many thoughts, one from each mind, the canidate the mind votes for, minds would not be connected to specific bodies. I know this can't happen yet, but could it work if we could?

look at it this way.

With paper ballots, forging an election takes humans. Lots of them. With electronic machines, it takes one person.

We still don't know if the votes were counted properly in Georgia after the 2016 election. Because someone deleted the database. That takes minutes, and one person. Destroying ballots? More people, more time.

[Mephisto]

We still don't know if the votes were counted properly in Georgia after the 2016 election. Because someone deleted the database. That takes minutes, and one person.

It also takes IT that is either hamstrung or incompetent. In the 20XXes, it is unconscionable to have such a thing not be redundant and backed up.

[Doomblade187]

We still don't know if the votes were counted properly in Georgia after the 2016 election. Because someone deleted the database. That takes minutes, and one person.

It also takes IT that is either hamstrung or incompetent. In the 20XXes, it is unconscionable to have such a thing not be redundant and backed up.

See: the Secretary of State of Georgia.

[scriver]

We still don't know if the votes were counted properly in Georgia after the 2016 election. Because someone deleted the database. That takes minutes, and one person.

It also takes IT that is either hamstrung or incompetent. In the 20XXes, it is unconscionable to have such a thing not be redundant and backed up.

Surely delediting the database and the backup would only take minutes and two persns

[Frumple]

Let me rephrase. Does people being shitty outweigh our elections being accountable to us?

I mean, it might not, but you're also talking about making a conscious decision to throw some of the most vulnerable among us under a bus in order to buy that accountability. If there's some other option that's feasible, particularly on the logistical front paper ballots can run into trouble with, it'd probably be a better idea.

[smjjames]

The logic of some people just astounds me, Trump is saying that we shouldn't help the Kurds because they didn't take part in Normandy and other WWII battles, which he got from a conservative op-ed article (shown in the link). By that op-eds logic, we shouldn't be allies with Israel, because they didn't exist as a nation to take part in WWII! Or for that matter, any number of countries that didn't exist or directly take part in the battles mentioned in that op-ed.

Just some absolutely bonkers logic.....

Y'know, Turkey didn't do a whole of of helping at Normandy either. They joined the allies only a couple of months before the end of the war in Europe, basically when the writing was already on the wall about who the winners were.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/09/politics/turkey-syria-us-anger-ramifications/index.html

EDIT: whole thing makes no sense at all ... unless you theorize that Russia really does have dirt on Trump and they twisted his arm to deliver on Syria now because of the possible impeachment. Doing something like this is electoral suicide for a first-term President only one year out from re-election, so you have to assume there's something bigger than his re-election behind this.

Unfortunately, foreign policy polls at single digits or something among what voters are concerned about. Despite the fact that the economy is linked to trade policy which IS foreign policy.

[sluissa]

There was something I was looking at yesterday... Might have been on the NYT, but I have no clue where to go back to find it now.

Trump's apparently been trying to pull out of Syria for most of his term. (And yeah, I do remember that being a thing what seems like decades ago at this point) Pentagon eventually "paused" the pullout and just hoped Trump wouldn't bring it up again.

Erdogan probably just approached Trump and just brought it up again and sold him on the idea of Turkey "taking over" the situation so the US wouldn't have to pay for it anymore.

As much as I personally hate seeing the US involved in yet another middle east war, and without knowing how it would have turned out otherwise, it's absolutely unconscionable that we've just stepped aside and washed our hands of it.

[McTraveller]

The whole "foreign meddling" in elections via social media, to me, is a red herring at best.  I mean they are just posting opinions on social media, it is still up to the people to actually vote.

If people think the ideas expressed by some entity, foreign or otherwise, are worth voting, how is that "meddling"?  It's the quintessential ad hominem attack: "because this idea came from foreigners, it must be bad"!

Instead of focusing on the source of the messages that are "meddlesome", just focus on the messages themselves.  This an easier strategy - the purveyors of a message could change (Russia to China to Nation X), so if you just fight the messenger you will be chasing the "messenger du jour."

If you fight the philosophy / propaganda itself, it doesn't matter the source.

[Mephisto]

I mean they are just posting opinions on social media, it is still up to the people to actually vote.

That leaves out every single detail and is so reductionist that it's not even funny. Like on the level of "Twitter is just advertising to you using the contact info that you provided them with" while leaving out that the contact info was meant for 2fa or "Japan just wanted to study the effects of radiation on the human body" while leaving out that the dude was in agony and begging to die the whole time.

[McTraveller]

Right but that is no different than what domestic media does.  So the only difference of importance is the content of the message, not its source.

Domestic propaganda is as equally selective.

So the "problem" isn't that people are spouting propaganda, but that our population apparently can no longer sift propaganda from reality.

I find it hypocritical to complain that group A (foreign or otherwise) has more effective propaganda than group B.  Because really that's what this whole argument boils down to.

[PTTG??]

The senate report shows how the propaganda was specifically not in support of any particular agenda, but rather designed to exploit internal decisions. It was, and is, pissing in the ear of an entire nation.

That's rather different from openly and earnestly stating a reasoned political opinion. Aside from that, intentions matter. Tearing down democracy and increasing conflict, as an objective, is not good or even neutral.

Aside from that, California is still in a black out. Some people are calling this a warning sign, but really it is outright the thing that previous warnings have been about since at least the '70s.

And then there's corporate acquiescence to absolutism. Apple, Google, and Blizzard have stated that they oppose democracy and support absolutism.

[Naturegirl1999]

When did they state this?

[PTTG??]

Blizzard. They continue censoring any mention of HK by anyone.
Google and Apple.

Oh, the NBA was doing much the same.

[McTraveller]

Wait you think domestic media is focused on reasoned political opinion? Yeah there is some in there, but a ton of it is just to stir things up to get those sweet sweet advertising dollars, stress medication dollars, and who knows what other dollars.