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[Reelya]

"Toilets" is a bad example since you can build toilet blocks and you don't necessarily need to distribute them.

But the solution is easy for some non-perishable good that's scarce and you need to hand them out in some order. Hand them out on an oldest-first basis. Sure, the 60 year old guy got his before you, but you're 40 by the time you got yours, so you get to enjoy yours for more years. So, you got yours later, but overall you enjoy more years of the higher standard of living than the guy who got one first, so your overall utility is higher.

Keep up excess production until you're handing them out at 18, then stabilize it as a rule that you get your personal one at 18. Only a small, set fraction of the population will be turning 18 at any specific time, and you will have the population records to perfectly plan for needed production levels to accommodate that, there will be no surprises.

[Doomblade187]

On the note of people with no motivation to work: People do want to feel useful, but for far too long we have conflated that with work - a recent example is trying to make it clear that being a stay at home parent is a job, effectively. People who don't contribute economically still contribute; just differently.

[Kagus]

See also: artists, musicians, volunteers, hobbyists

[Doomblade187]

See also: artists, musicians, volunteers, hobbyists

Exactly.

[smjjames]

On the note of people with no motivation to work: People do want to feel useful, but for far too long we have conflated that with work- a recent example is trying to make it clear that being a stay at home parent is a job, effectively. People who don't contribute economically still contribute; just differently.

That's mostly a consequence of the industrial revolution isn't it? It's also in part a culture issue, which is going to be more challenging to deal with.

We're in fact going through a similar type of economic, technological, and societal transition as the industrial revolution (I believe it does have a name, but I forget what it is) was and the general proccess of industrialization. It took maybe 40 years from the start of when it began getting disruptive I believe before things began settling down into a new paradgim. I may be talking about a different facet of it with the 40 years thing, but what's happening now is similar to other periods of transition/transformation as in the past.

[McTraveller]

But the solution is easy for some non-perishable good that's scarce and you need to hand them out in some order.  Hand them out on an oldest-first basis.

Interesting idea actually.

But how would you account for preferences?  For instance, what if there were white toilets and tan ones?  How do you decide who gets what color?  What happens if you have more variables, like single vs dual flush, round vs elongated bowl, etc.

I suppose if we live in a manufacturing utopia what you would hand out is not a good itself, but an order fulfillment slot?  That is "it's now your turn for a new X.  Please select the options you want and it will be delivered on <date>."

I could see that as a possibility actually.  It gets more interesting when it's not "durable goods" but something where the ordering timespan is much shorter than the production timespan, like food.  Maybe you'd have to just get the average consumer to better understand the concept of lead time?

There's also the question of how to deal with "warranty". Maybe if your product breaks between the normal ordering cycle time, you would get inserted into the queue early.

The other thought is - what about people who want things updated more often than the standard ordering cycle time?  Would you allow people to trade their slots?  Could you avoid abuse if you only allowed a one-for-one trade? I don't think you'd be able to "store" production slots.

Actually to expand on that - I wonder if you could improve things today (e.g., lessen the severity of business cycles) if we went more toward an order fulfillment culture instead of a retail "buy off the shelf" culture.  That way manufacturers wouldn't be guessing about their sales, they would just be fulfilling orders.

Anyway, this is getting rambling and I don't think it's really in the realm of politics so much as economic theorizing...

[Doomblade187]

Eh, I find this economic planning debate interesting. I do think that we need to *highly* disincentivize instant fulfillment things, like same day shipping, as it is highly inefficient.

[Naturegirl1999]

But the solution is easy for some non-perishable good that's scarce and you need to hand them out in some order.  Hand them out on an oldest-first basis.

Interesting idea actually.

But how would you account for preferences?  For instance, what if there were white toilets and tan ones?  How do you decide who gets what color?  What happens if you have more variables, like single vs dual flush, round vs elongated bowl, etc.

I suppose if we live in a manufacturing utopia what you would hand out is not a good itself, but an order fulfillment slot?  That is "it's now your turn for a new X.  Please select the options you want and it will be delivered on <date>."

I could see that as a possibility actually.  It gets more interesting when it's not "durable goods" but something where the ordering timespan is much shorter than the production timespan, like food.  Maybe you'd have to just get the average consumer to better understand the concept of lead time?

There's also the question of how to deal with "warranty". Maybe if your product breaks between the normal ordering cycle time, you would get inserted into the queue early.

The other thought is - what about people who want things updated more often than the standard ordering cycle time?  Would you allow people to trade their slots?  Could you avoid abuse if you only allowed a one-for-one trade? I don't think you'd be able to "store" production slots.

Actually to expand on that - I wonder if you could improve things today (e.g., lessen the severity of business cycles) if we went more toward an order fulfillment culture instead of a retail "buy off the shelf" culture.  That way manufacturers wouldn't be guessing about their sales, they would just be fulfilling orders.

Anyway, this is getting rambling and I don't think it's really in the realm of politics so much as economic theorizing...

I wonder why we don’t already do this, it seems to me that order filling would be easier than what we have now

[hector13]

But the solution is easy for some non-perishable good that's scarce and you need to hand them out in some order.  Hand them out on an oldest-first basis.

Interesting idea actually.

But how would you account for preferences?  For instance, what if there were white toilets and tan ones?  How do you decide who gets what color?  What happens if you have more variables, like single vs dual flush, round vs elongated bowl, etc.

I suppose if we live in a manufacturing utopia what you would hand out is not a good itself, but an order fulfillment slot?  That is "it's now your turn for a new X.  Please select the options you want and it will be delivered on <date>."

I could see that as a possibility actually.  It gets more interesting when it's not "durable goods" but something where the ordering timespan is much shorter than the production timespan, like food.  Maybe you'd have to just get the average consumer to better understand the concept of lead time?

There's also the question of how to deal with "warranty". Maybe if your product breaks between the normal ordering cycle time, you would get inserted into the queue early.

The other thought is - what about people who want things updated more often than the standard ordering cycle time?  Would you allow people to trade their slots?  Could you avoid abuse if you only allowed a one-for-one trade? I don't think you'd be able to "store" production slots.

Actually to expand on that - I wonder if you could improve things today (e.g., lessen the severity of business cycles) if we went more toward an order fulfillment culture instead of a retail "buy off the shelf" culture.  That way manufacturers wouldn't be guessing about their sales, they would just be fulfilling orders.

Anyway, this is getting rambling and I don't think it's really in the realm of politics so much as economic theorizing...

I wonder why we don’t already do this, it seems to me that order filling would be easier than what we have now

A planned economy is SoCiAlIsM!!!!111

[Bumber]

I wonder why we don’t already do this, it seems to me that order filling would be easier than what we have now

We do, and it's not. When you go to buy an item from the store and they have it in stock, you get it immediately and for the regular price. When it's not in stock or you want to customize it, you can expect to get it several weeks later and be charged extra fees. Mass producing generic items and distributing them in bulk is faster and cheaper than taking individual orders and sending them to the proper location.

[Iduno]

Similarly, I'm not sure why you think that post-capitalism means people will all stop working. For one, it's fairly well established that people generally like being useful and for another... if nobody works everyone fuckin dies? That pressure exists, no matter the method of transmission. Ideally, though, people would be free not to be *over*worked or abused. Enough productivity to sustain things should be enough, without endless profit- and rent-seeking. This isn't that hard, people are really productive with all the force multiplying tech and specialization built up. There is not at all a need to put everyone on tiny farm lots or whatever.

It might be because IRL communism (or "USSR communism" as you've named it), where people are not properly rewarded for the work they do

Pardon, but in your description of USSR communism, you also describes capitalism

Perhaps I should've said "lack of punishment for the work they don't do or do shitty". The sort of sorry work performance rampant in communist times would get you fired in most places in a modern capitalist country. Like regularly-arriving-to-work-drunk levels of disregard for work ethic.

Man, where do you work? I don't think I've seen fewer than 1/3 of the people on the road at any time here be drunk.

[McTraveller]

Mass producing generic items and distributing them in bulk is faster and cheaper than taking individual orders and sending them to the proper location.

I think the hypothesis here is that it's "faster and cheaper" but that it also contributes to the boom-bust business cycle.  Perhaps we'd be willing to accept slightly slower availability, slightly more expensive goods if we eliminated recessions?  I'd be willing to consider that trade.

[Doomblade187]

Mass producing generic items and distributing them in bulk is faster and cheaper than taking individual orders and sending them to the proper location.

I think the hypothesis here is that it's "faster and cheaper" but that it also contributes to the boom-bust business cycle.  Perhaps we'd be willing to accept slightly slower availability, slightly more expensive goods if we eliminated recessions?  I'd be willing to consider that trade.

A lot of merchants and producers are moving towards Just in Time methods that reduce warehousing, but these have an additional cost in that the raw material shipping schedule is more demanding, and outgoing shipments are less full/efficient in some cases

[McTraveller]

Just in time has some interesting trade-offs. For instance if you don't have a warehouse, you are extremely susceptible to supply chain disruptions.  It's a good example of something that is less expensive in some ways, but more expensive in others.

There are numerous records of factories that have had to shut down - with significant cost - due to the shift to just-in-time.

In full disclosure though, I've not seen a report comparing the cost of those shutdowns versus the nominal savings from JIT.  I would hazard those reports, if they exist, also only focus on the companies themselves, not consumers.

[sluissa]

JIT supply chains also don't react well to international disputes if those supply chains extend across borders. We're seeing this now with Brexit looming and with the Chinese tariffs.