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[Reelya]

@Troll - I think the distinction about UK being a "police state" is a bit rich considering y'all live in a state in which the police run around in military gear, have APCs, gun people down, compared to the UK where the police literally don't even carry guns for the most part. Your analysis of different countries reads like it was written by a 12 year old, sorry Trolldefender.

See, the USA is a place where the police will summarily execute you down the street and pretty much get away with it most of the time, compared to the UK which has ... slightly strong defamation and hate-speech laws.

[Lord Shonus]

Who is the real candidate?

Since sanders has ruled out pushing to nuke the filibuster, of the major ones it basically just leaves warren, tbh. Biden's biden, sanders has more or less committed to functionally neutering his presidency if he got elected, and unless something changes between now and the primaries there's not really a fourth option

Biden seems the best choice as far as moderate democrats go. Him and kamala are pretty sensible. I just like Andrew Yang cause of the free 1k lol. The others which are popular with some democrats are as far left as trump supporters are far right.

That's complete bullshit, though. There's not really anything popular among dems that is any further left than bog standard european(/other major developed countries) stuff.

And europe is full of far left socialism. Which is I agree become standard over there. UK for example is a socialist police state that takes words more seriously than being a pedophile, that is as far left as it gets. That is the exact same thing of stalin communism who arrested/killed anyone that said anything they didn't like. Which again was spread to the western world by russia (except rebranded itself) to create discourse within the west, without actually needing to fight an actual war war. Its as bad as all the far right radicals that have sprouted up and go around with their equal BS, both equally bad in their own way.

I don't support either group. So I'm really hoping Biden or Kamala end up as the Democrat nominee, far more sensible politicians.

I'm going to put this bluntly.

Everything you said in this post and the last post is nonsense. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Properly debunking the bullshit you are spewing would not be the work of a paragraph, or even a page, but would effectively require a dissertation.

[Trolldefender99]

Who is the real candidate?

Since sanders has ruled out pushing to nuke the filibuster, of the major ones it basically just leaves warren, tbh. Biden's biden, sanders has more or less committed to functionally neutering his presidency if he got elected, and unless something changes between now and the primaries there's not really a fourth option

Biden seems the best choice as far as moderate democrats go. Him and kamala are pretty sensible. I just like Andrew Yang cause of the free 1k lol. The others which are popular with some democrats are as far left as trump supporters are far right.

That's complete bullshit, though. There's not really anything popular among dems that is any further left than bog standard european(/other major developed countries) stuff.

And europe is full of far left socialism. Which is I agree become standard over there. UK for example is a socialist police state that takes words more seriously than being a pedophile, that is as far left as it gets. That is the exact same thing of stalin communism who arrested/killed anyone that said anything they didn't like. Which again was spread to the western world by russia (except rebranded itself) to create discourse within the west, without actually needing to fight an actual war war. Its as bad as all the far right radicals that have sprouted up and go around with their equal BS, both equally bad in their own way.

I don't support either group. So I'm really hoping Biden or Kamala end up as the Democrat nominee, far more sensible politicians.

I'm going to put this bluntly.

Everything you said in this post and the last post is nonsense. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Properly debunking the bullshit you are spewing would not be the work of a paragraph, or even a page, but would effectively require a dissertation.

You are still using insults.

[Reelya]

EDIT: There were no insults from Lord Shonus. If you write something, and someone says it's "nonsense". That's not an insult. An insult is when they call you a "moron" for posting something. Saying that the post itself is wrong isn't an insult, it's just that you have hurt feelings because the thing you made wasn't very good, and someone said it wasn't very good. That's just honesty, not an insult, and in fact Lord Shonus is showing restraint by criticizing the post, and not you as a person.

Me saying "you write like a 12 year old" is in fact a proper insult, because I'm comparing you to something. Saying "that post is nonsense" isn't even at the starting lines of insults. The fact that you feel insulted doesn't make something an insult, it just means you're acting like a snowflake.

[hector13]

While I have great distaste for the manner in which Reelya debates at times, I feel I have to agree with him here.

What makes you think the UK is a socialist police state? The Conservative party has been in power since 2010.

What makes you think Europe is full of far left radical socialists?

[Lord Shonus]

Not only is it clear that you have absolutely no idea what the phrases "Socialism", "Communism", "Far Left", "Police State", and "Russia" mean, it isn't even clear what nonsense definitions you ARE using, making it impossible to even challenge.

 You also seem to have pulled your conception of non-US countries from the deranged fantasies of Joe McCarthy, because what you insinuate has no connection with reality whatsoever.

[Trolldefender99]

Don't write gibberish that reads like a 12 year old then. Sorry. It's hard to know where to begin unraveling the crap that you're posting, because it is just very ill-informed and poorly written crap. Just being completely honest here. You're not crap, you're just spouting crap. That can be improved by you reading more and being more critical in your thinking.

But is it not true Russia propped up Trump as president? Why else would they do that but to create discourse. Likewise why would they only prop up far right radicals and not also support socialism which almost destroyed their own country? It would be in their best interest to create two opposing sides to create turmoil and weaken the west. Socialism does tend to weaken countries, likewise the far right weakens countries too with their hatred of anyone that isn't white. Though India elected a far right president and they aren't white, so I'm not sure what that is about but I don't live anywhere near there. In any case. Both to me are equally bad for their own reasons.

As for the UK. Maybe the police state part is wrong use of words, but they do seem to arrest people for words far faster than if someone is committing pedophilia. To me that is the pinnacle of socialism, arresting people for words far faster before putting someone in prison for hurting a child.

In any case, not sure whats up with so many disliking Obama's legacy. Its really weird and makes no sense when he was the most popular US president in modern history and definitely must be in the top most popular US presidents.

My guess is there is a lot of far left people here, so me liking Biden and hating socialism seems to have angered people for some reason. When we should be united on getting trump out of the white house.

[Reelya]

As for the UK. Maybe the police state part is wrong use of words, but they do seem to arrest people for words far faster than if someone is committing pedophilia. To me that is the pinnacle of socialism, arresting people for words far faster before putting someone in prison for hurting a child.

The problem here is that you're using words such as "socialism" with your own personal definition that's not shared by other people, then you're attributing specific things to that which are your own concoction. If you consider letting pedos walk the street was the "pinnacle of socialism" then you have your own very warped meaning of what that word even means. it would like me saying that "torturing people to death is the pinnacle of Christianity" and then not considering any other points of view.

[hector13]

DP, for more context.

France’s most recent presidential election was between the leader of the far-right and a centrist. Italy was recently run by a populist coalition of some far-right parties. Angela Merkel, of the center-right, has been Chancellor of Germany for a decade and a half. Spain was run by Conservatives ‘til recently, might very well be again soon.

Aside from all this, Europe has seen a resurgence of far-right support in recent years, too.

Do you mean far-left relative to the US?

PPE: I think you’re doing this deliberately. You’re spouting nonsense and expecting to be taken seriously, and spout more nonsense to defend your previous nonsense, wondering why we’re not taking your nonsense seriously.

[Trolldefender99]

Maybe not socialism would be the word for it, CNN calls them progressives which is what I consider to be a form of socialism but I suppose its called progressive.

In any case, why is there so much dislike from progressives over (at least some) of Obama's legacy and Biden? This is the part that confuses me the most. The most popular president and the one democrat debate Obama was a bigger target it seemed than Trump. What we should do, which I said above, is whoever (including me) ends up being the nominee we need to vote Trump out. Even if its a progressive like Bernie or Warren, I'll admit that is still a ton better to me than Trump who is just a russian stooge

[Trolldefender99]

In any case, I'll end off sorry for my mix up of words. By socialism I suppose I meant progressivism which is what I looked at and saw CNN actually calling it. Though I still think progressivism is a bad way to go.

I think we can all agree though no matter if its biden, bernie, warren, anyone, we need to get out and get the russian stooge out of the white house. A big racist bully, and even if you hate biden or whoever it ends up being, we need to vote trump out

[Dunamisdeos]

Ok so I think your confusion comes from learning about socialism as "that thing that Stalin's Russia had". From this point of view, socialism simply means "a government like Stalin's". This is inaccurate. You are conflating "Things Stalin did" with "Socialism".

Socialism and Communism are forms of government/thought with specific definitions as to the methods and policies they use. For instance, Stalin liked to outright murder anyone he was afraid might disagree with him. This is associated with Stalin, not socialism, as socialism does not promote murder as an inherent part of it's system.

I would recommend hitting up Wikipedia. That's how I originally learned more about it. A very broad-strokes description would be that Communism is a philosophy, whereas socialism is one of the ways that men have tried to put parts of that philosophy into practice. It's fine if you don't like socialism, but it's important for these discussions for everyone to be on the same page insofar as terminology/definitions of important concepts goes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

[Trolldefender99]

Ok so I think your confusion comes from learning about socialism as "that thing that Stalin's Russia had". From this point of view, socialism simply means "a government like Stalin's". This is inaccurate. You are conflating "Things Stalin did" with "Socialism".

Socialism and Communism are forms of government/thought with specific definitions as to the methods and policies they use. For instance, Stalin liked to outright murder anyone he was afraid might disagree with him. This is associated with Stalin, not socialism, as socialism does not promote murder as an inherent part of it's system.

I would recommend hitting up Wikipedia. That's how I originally learned more about it. A very broad-strokes description would be that Communism is a philosophy, whereas socialism is one of the ways that men have tried to put parts of that philosophy into practice. It's fine if you don't like socialism, but it's important for these discussions for everyone to be on the same page insofar as terminology/definitions of important concepts goes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

Thank you I'll study more into this, and start with the links you sent. I truly wasn't trolling, though I do get annoyed when democrats (not anyone here that I've seen, but I have seen it elsewhere) disliking obama and what his legacy left behind.

Maybe my thoughts on socialism is wrong since I combined it with what stalin did. So like I said, I'll read the wiki on it and do my own further research to expand my knowledge on that subject.

Thanks for not just insulting me, but giving me a path to knowing more about it.

[Egan_BW]

"torturing people to death is the pinnacle of Christianity"

I mean, that would make sense, seeing as the cross is their symbol and all.

[Reelya]

I'm really trying to unravel this stuff.

Socialism does tend to weaken countries

Yeah, we haven't actually established that as fact. Russia, before WWI was known as "the sick man of Europe". It was economically backwards, hicksville. The USSR however turned it into the world's 2nd biggest superpower. Russia in fact became a dominant force in the world, all within the Soviet Era. China, similarly, was a broken down nation. It's now on track to exceed the USA's GDP at some point in a decade or two. India and China were economically similar around 1950 or so, India went all-in on the free market whereas China went all-in on a planned state economy. China now massively exceeds the power of India.

likewise the far right weakens countries too with their hatred of anyone that isn't white. Though India elected a far right president and they aren't white, so I'm not sure what that is about but I don't live anywhere near there.

The problem is you're trying to make sense of overseas politics based on only what's current where you live, which is clearly not the right analysis. Nazi germany wasn't black-vs-white, because that dynamic didn't exist in Germany. Germany persecuted European Jews (who are pretty white) while allying with the Japanese (very non-white). Far-right nationalism entirely depends on which nation you're in. A far-right person in Russia supports Russian Nationalism, a far-right person in India supports Indian Nationalism. A far-right person in Japan sees the Japanese as the supreme race. The far-right commonality is that there is an "in-group" and you have some "out-group", usually immigrants that is the target. Which in-group exists and white out-group existed is entirely dependent on where you live, so a Japanese far-right person will want Japan to have an empire again, and suppress all non-Japanese races.

As for the UK. Maybe the police state part is wrong use of words, but they do seem to arrest people for words far faster than if someone is committing pedophilia. To me that is the pinnacle of socialism, arresting people for words far faster before putting someone in prison for hurting a child.

Firstly, this doesn't fit any definition of socialism that I'm familiar with. We're at least free to completely disagree on the terminology, but when I say "socialism" i'm not talking about what you're talking about, and I disagree that it's the same thing.

for a good start on defining what a "police state" is, it's when there's a lack of separation of powers between the main political party and the law enforcement wing. The police become an instrument to ensure the rule of the party itself. Stuff police states do is like sending the police to beat up supporters of the opposition party, or the secret police secretly monitor which political party you support, or infiltrate opposition groups with moles designed to derail political campaigns. Making a law that says "don't insult gay people" for example, isn't really in the "police state" kind of realm.

In any case, not sure whats up with so many disliking Obama's legacy. Its really weird and makes no sense when he was the most popular US president in modern history and definitely must be in the top most popular US presidents.

My guess is there is a lot of far left people here, so me liking Biden and hating socialism seems to have angered people for some reason. When we should be united on getting trump out of the white house.

I think the bigger problem is that you're creating what is really a "straw man" version of socialism, attributing a lot of negative stuff to it, then assuming that's what anyone who mentions socialism is talking about. First up, I'd argue that there are a bunch of opinions on the Left, and some of them are related to socialism, but not all of them. For example, identity politics, feminism etc, have nothing to do with socialism. The term Socialism represents a number of different (some of which are mutually exclusive) economic theories. This has nothing to do with whether you support identity politics, political correctness or any of the "isms" that are popular on the left.