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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4453132 times)

Gentlefish

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #31875 on: August 21, 2019, 11:26:40 am »

The executive branch isn't the only issue, if we're talking state problems.

Moscow Mitch is basically holding the Senate hostage and using that position to cram the courts with regressive judges. This is and was their goal. This will shape policy for years. Thank god RBG's managed to hold on for so long.

My biggest sadness with this whole discussion is that it highlights the prevailing sentiments of opposition and being against things, rather than being for things.

Instead of a society full of hope and possibilities, we're in an environment full of fear and "what can we do to stop X!?"  That applies across the entire political spectrum as I see it.

It's the not-so-subtle difference in worldview between "let's improve X" and "let's stop (the converse of) X".  I understand there is a place for both views, but they need to be in balance.  Right now I see very little balance, and that makes me tired.

EDIT: An example here is from the above discussion talking about the fears that drive far- and alt-right behaviors: if we focus on addressing the fears the resulting behavior is likely to vanish, but if we focus on trying to stop the behaviors it's going to be a drawn-out battle.  I would prefer most of the effort going to relieving fears, rather than most of the effort focusing on the bellicose.  Put another way - if you could make people comfortable, they are probably not going to behave aggressively unless they are just the type of people who like aggression.

Societies tend to get overly aggressive only when a large enough population feels like they are no worse off for being aggressive than they are for being passive; that is, people do enjoy aggression so to help avoid it you have to make it not worth the risk.  Right now we have a situation where the risks aren't enough to avoid the aggression: people feel they have nothing to lose, so aggression makes sense.

i'm absolutely of the mindset of "let's improve". Let's improve access to healthcare and higher knowledge. Improve infrastructure for more efficient transportations of goods. Improve our energy generation and that infrastructure too so it's cheaper (damn near free) and as environmentally friendly as possible.

That is simply not possible in this system. CEOs are beholden to their stockholders, and stockholders want money. They don't care how they get it. Fines for polluting the environment and deaths accrued to the damages are the cost of business. Republicans jump on the fears of the common man to turn him against himself in order to stay elected and grift the system.

This is why I'm voting Bernie/Warren/Blue. It better not be Biden. I hope reform is still possible. But there are fires in communities that need to be tamped out. And I'm not going to fault those communities for doing it themselves.

Besides, there's no epidemic of undirected Antifa violence. No Antifa shooters targetting white supremacist gatherings. Even after Nigel Farage got milkshaked, it fell out of the news quickly. Even quicker when Sargon of Akkad got shaked. And when the Australian fascist got egged. These moments were generally celebrated and fell out of the news quickly. (Save the egg, but that's because the kid got assaulted by two very large men afterward.)
Like SalmonGod said, Richard Spencer, the face of the Alt-Right for the longest time, stopped because it "wasn't fun anymore". At rallies, people are removing their hateful symbols and trying to leave quietly. They can't play the pity game when we keep calling them out and taking control of the dialogue.

Teneb

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #31876 on: August 21, 2019, 01:22:47 pm »

On the topic of CEOs being beholden to stockholders, apparently even they got sick of that shit.

Whether that means anything remains to be seen, of course. That they even went so far to take this token step, though, is a whole hell of a lot further than I was expecting.

Then again, even someone just mentioning the topic while being in a relevant position would've been further than what I was expecting.


So... eh? Maybe something, maybe not, probably closer to not but at least there's something to look towards rather than the absolute sea of soul-sucking endless darkness that was the prior state of things?
If I recall correctly, some of those CEOs are from corporations that have their own employees as shareholders. Unless they specify that they mean the big investors, I don't have any confidence in them.
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Gentlefish

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #31877 on: August 21, 2019, 02:07:29 pm »

I do really hope they mean it. Even as a token gesture, this is more than we've seen of upper management understanding the situation we're in.

Of course, I am of the mind that the workers themselves should have stake in the business and not third-parties, and hire the boards internally. But that's a different topic for a different day.

Dunamisdeos

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #31878 on: August 21, 2019, 03:15:17 pm »

Justice is actually happening for certain for-profit universities. I shouldn't give too many details, no idea what's allowed to be said publicly.

I've been involved in a class action against one of them that was forcibly closed for being predatory swindling fuckbags. We're starting to get notices that our student debt is being wiped out in full. None for me as of yet, there's a processing issue that I've just resolved. But I'm still in contact with many of my former (ahem) "classmates" who have shown me the official notices of debt erasure.

Also found out that in addition the judge awarded a huge sum to be handled at a later date for personal claims. Claims like "X stole my fucking education and I've been on state welfare since then". Etc.

Anyway in my case it's a direct result of actions taken by Obama. Thanks Obama!
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MrRoboto75

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #31879 on: August 21, 2019, 05:58:08 pm »

On the topic of CEOs being beholden to stockholders, apparently even they got sick of that shit.

Whether that means anything remains to be seen, of course. That they even went so far to take this token step, though, is a whole hell of a lot further than I was expecting.

Then again, even someone just mentioning the topic while being in a relevant position would've been further than what I was expecting.


So... eh? Maybe something, maybe not, probably closer to not but at least there's something to look towards rather than the absolute sea of soul-sucking endless darkness that was the prior state of things?

The system is internally self-enforcing.  If today's CEO won't generate infinite gains for shareholders, they'll find a person who will.
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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #31880 on: August 22, 2019, 02:52:18 am »

Uh, so the Danish prime minister commented that Trump's idea of buying Greenland was absurd, and Trump's become extra sulky about it say it was just an idea, and there's no reason to be "nasty" about it (which is pretty ironic coming from Trump), and they could have just said they're not interested.

And now, he's cancelled a planned diplomatic visit to Denmark over the comment, causing even more outrage and derision in Denmark.

This is hilarious, it's like Trump is a special needs kids who you need to humor no matter how fucking ridiculous he acts, or he will spit the dummy and refuse to come to your birthday party.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2019, 03:03:17 am by Reelya »
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wierd

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #31881 on: August 22, 2019, 03:23:28 am »

No he's a spoiled rich kid who was never told "NO", and has subsequently never come to terms with the concept.
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scriver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #31882 on: August 22, 2019, 05:12:48 am »

Uh, so the Danish prime minister commented that Trump's idea of buying Greenland was absurd, and Trump's become extra sulky about it say it was just an idea, and there's no reason to be "nasty" about it (which is pretty ironic coming from Trump), and they could have just said they're not interested.

And now, he's cancelled a planned diplomatic visit to Denmark over the comment, causing even more outrage and derision in Denmark.

This is hilarious, it's like Trump is a special needs kids who you need to humor no matter how fucking ridiculous he acts, or he will spit the dummy and refuse to come to your birthday party.

Okay sorry to go off topic but "spit the dummy"?
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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #31883 on: August 22, 2019, 05:17:41 am »

Ah yeah, didn't realize that's a local saying. A dummy is a pacifier (UK, Australia, NZ English), i.e. the thing babies suck on. To spit the dummy means to act like a baby having a tantrum.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/spit_the_dummy
« Last Edit: August 22, 2019, 05:20:20 am by Reelya »
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wierd

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #31884 on: August 22, 2019, 05:20:59 am »

Careful, Trump strikes me as the kind that might actually have an "Adult baby" kink.

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scriver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #31885 on: August 22, 2019, 06:01:50 am »

Ah yeah, didn't realize that's a local saying. A dummy is a pacifier (UK, Australia, NZ English), i.e. the thing babies suck on. To spit the dummy means to act like a baby having a tantrum.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/spit_the_dummy

Ah! Makes sense. Thanks!
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McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #31886 on: August 22, 2019, 06:22:58 am »

I honestly don't know why other leaders get so offended by Trump.  Why can't they just treat it like the nonsense that it is?  Taking it personally seems a bit like an overreaction.  Maybe that's because I'm a temperate, conflict-avoiding personality.  But I see it like having a kid in your class that is your peer that you just can't stand.  You can either take it personally, or you can just stuck it up until the term is up (heh, funny how the word is the same).

I mean, if a leader does throw a tantrum, isn't it better just to stand by and watch them melt down themselves? You don't have to bring yourselves into the fray.

I mean if I were the leader of a country or even US State where Trump had a planned visit and then cancelled, I'd be like "Ok, well, when you're ready to be an adult let us know.  Our calendar gets booked though, so don't be surprised if we can't accommodate you at your desired time."  And just leave it at that.  No need to be "offended".  Now if there is real impact on your country, then yes take appropriate action, but if you do it coolly rather than emotionally, it speaks much louder...
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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #31887 on: August 22, 2019, 07:12:19 am »

They did treat it like nonsense. The entire thing Trump is upset about is that the Danish prime minister merely said that the idea of selling Greenland is absurd. No more than that.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/denmark-disappointed-surprised-trump-trip-cancellation-greenland/story?id=65095389
Quote
"I looked forward to going but I thought the prime minister's statement that it was 'absurd,' that it was an absurd idea, was nasty," he told reporters

Effectively she blew off the entire thing by calling the idea out as a ridiculous notion, and Trump isn't having that. If she'd actually gotten properly upset, Trump would probably have reacted better. If you upset someone, you have power over them. But ... she just brushed it off as absurd which implies it's silly and not worthy of further comment, which hurts Trump's pride.

That's the point here. The Danish PM responded with as close to "no comment" as she could, by labeling the whole idea as nonsense that you said they should call it. She had to respond in some manner, and to imply they were taking the idea seriously would not have been acceptable.

That's what Trump is in fact upset about, and why he had to escalate to doing something that would actually cause them to be pissed off. However, even then she's only said she's disappointed and surprised. She's not in fact getting "offended".
« Last Edit: August 22, 2019, 07:33:30 am by Reelya »
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wierd

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #31888 on: August 22, 2019, 07:29:31 am »

Again, Trump is not used to being told "NO."

Saying "No, that's absurd, the very idea that we would even consider selling you Greenland is absurd." is taken personally by Trump, because he is used to having every idea of his fawned over and lauded. He's used to hearing "yes! Great idea! Of course we will!"  When somebody says "No, we wont, that's crazy talk" he thinks they are being stingy and mean-- why else would they say no?
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McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #31889 on: August 22, 2019, 07:48:17 am »

I was referring to this bit:

causing even more outrage and derision in Denmark.

So maybe I misread that and the "outrage and derision in Denmark" is more from the population, not the Danish leadership.
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