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[Naturegirl1999]

The first Revolutionary War started with a Declaration of Independence, What might ours say if we drafted one now? Unless theoretical Declarations of Indepence are considered treasonous, in which case the Internet isn’t the best place to put it, then again, putting it on the Unternet can get others who feel similarly in touch...

We the People realize that the USA is no longer run by the government, it is run by corporations that puppet the government. Knowing this, we declare Independence from the United Shareholders of America...

[Teneb]

You could totally have a robot arm, yeah. It wouldn't be better than a normal arm at this point, and the hoops you'd have to jump through to get into that level of prosthetic development is hella' huge, but they're out there. Legs, too. Iirc there's even (pretty shitty) cybereyes, stuff with hearing, etc. Brain enhancement we've just gone the external peripherals route.

Basically the cyberware future is now, we're just in like... backstory land prior to the fancier stuff, and also rolling with tech that's not mainline sci-fi/cyberpunk of yesteryear (external enhancement existed as a plot point going pretty far back, but it wasn't exactly super common).

But when can we expect to jack into the Internet, huh?

... is VR just a primitive form of that?

[Egan_BW]

The first Revolutionary War started with a Declaration of Independence, What might ours say if we drafted one now?

That was tried once, it was called the american civil war, a lot of people died.

You might say that those states succeeded for the wrong reasons, and a hypothetical new succession could be done for the right reasons. Would not change the bloodiness of the conflict, I think.

[Frumple]

But when can we expect to jack into the Internet, huh?

... is VR just a primitive form of that?

Not even VR, basically all this handheld shit we're doing is said primitive form. On the fly mobile computing and network interfacing; the UI is clunkier than proposed by direct brain interface fiction and general capability mostly weaker but the functionality is otherwise pretty much identical.

[MrRoboto75]

You could totally have a robot arm, yeah. It wouldn't be better than a normal arm at this point, and the hoops you'd have to jump through to get into that level of prosthetic development is hella' huge, but they're out there. Legs, too. Iirc there's even (pretty shitty) cybereyes, stuff with hearing, etc. Brain enhancement we've just gone the external peripherals route.

Basically the cyberware future is now, we're just in like... backstory land prior to the fancier stuff, and also rolling with tech that's not mainline sci-fi/cyberpunk of yesteryear (external enhancement existed as a plot point going pretty far back, but it wasn't exactly super common).

Its technically possible, yes.  But culturally its still just prosthetic for people who lack limbs beyond their own choice.  They aren't for transhumanism, not improving the body, just making up for disability.

The first Revolutionary War started with a Declaration of Independence, What might ours say if we drafted one now?

That was tried once, it was called the american civil war, a lot of people died.

You might say that those states succeeded for the wrong reasons, and a hypothetical new succession could be done for the right reasons. Would not change the bloodiness of the conflict, I think.

We'll just retcon it later in time as "state's rights" or something.

[bloop_bleep]

The American Civil War was about states’ rights. It was an issue for a very long time, stretching back to the very beginnings of the country, and there was animosity between the federal government in the north and many state governments in the south practically forever. The north and south’s big disagreement about slavery was just what finally galvanized the south to take such drastic action, because at that point the federal government was threatening to destroy southern landowners’ entire livelihoods.

[Naturegirl1999]

Would a peaceful revolution succeeed? I don’t like the thought of going to war,, I really hope there is a peaceful way to fix things. Problem is everyone will lie about who will fix it. If anyone will.

[Culise]

But, naturally, it's not about states' rights when the South was willing to trample over the North using their own shady "states' rights" tactics against them (nullification, which the South immediately denounced when applied to federal power in the form of the Fugitive Slave Act as opposed to federal power in the form of tariffs), and it wasn't about states' rights when one of the core matters codified in the Confederate constitution was to explicitly deny any states the right to ever overturn or undermine the peculiar institution within their own borders, even if it applied only to local residents.  States' rights is a red herring created by the Lost Cause movement to recast their struggle as a valiant bid for freedom against tyranny.  For the South, it was about their breed of chattel slavery, which as you yourself say, was the basis for the antebellum Southern economy and society, and it was about power: the 1860 election was the first election in which a united South alone could not decide the course of the entire nation. 

Of course, that doesn't mean it was about slavery for the North.  Abolitionism was still a fringe movement there, and the rallying cry was Union.  The South fought for slavery; the North fought against secesh.

[Culise]

EDIT: Hit the wrong button.  Late is late.

[Frumple]

Would a peaceful revolution succeeed? I don’t like the thought of going to war,, I really hope there is a peaceful way to fix things. Problem is everyone will lie about who will fix it. If anyone will.

If by peaceful and succeeding you mean we piddle along praying the environment doesn't reach an omnifucked threshold while waiting for the boomers et al to keel over and hope the younger generations can manage to unfuck things enough most of us don't die, sure.

You're not going to have to worry about an actual civil war breaking out any time soon, though. Uptick in domestic terrorism, maybe, but more than that, nah.

[Lord Shonus]

But, naturally, it's not about states' rights when the South was willing to trample over the North using their own shady "states' rights" tactics against them (nullification, which the South immediately denounced when applied to federal power in the form of the Fugitive Slave Act as opposed to federal power in the form of tariffs), and it wasn't about states' rights when one of the core matters codified in the Confederate constitution was to explicitly deny any states the right to ever overturn or undermine the peculiar institution within their own borders, even if it applied only to local residents.  States' rights is a red herring created by the Lost Cause movement to recast their struggle as a valiant bid for freedom against tyranny.  For the South, it was about their breed of chattel slavery, which as you yourself say, was the basis for the antebellum Southern economy and society, and it was about power: the 1860 election was the first election in which a united South alone could not decide the course of the entire nation. 

Of course, that doesn't mean it was about slavery for the North.  Abolitionism was still a fringe movement there, and the rallying cry was Union.  The South fought for slavery; the North fought against secesh.

That's overly simplistic. New England almost seceded over States Rights issues around 1812. The notion existed from the beginning, it was never something come up with after the war.

[Baffler]

Would a peaceful revolution succeeed? I don’t like the thought of going to war,, I really hope there is a peaceful way to fix things. Problem is everyone will lie about who will fix it. If anyone will.

If by peaceful and succeeding you mean we piddle along praying the environment doesn't reach an omnifucked threshold while waiting for the boomers et al to keel over and hope the younger generations can manage to unfuck things enough most of us don't die, sure.

You're not going to have to worry about an actual civil war breaking out any time soon, though. Uptick in domestic terrorism, maybe, but more than that, nah.

The USA could vanish tomorrow and we'd still be in an environmental death spiral on China's back alone, to say nothing of India, or Southeast Asia, or Europe and South America, or Africa now that a lot of countries there are starting on the industrialization snowball too. The passing of the boomercons will be a plus, but on that particular front it's going to take a lot more than a Green New Deal to save us. Global warming is pretty much a done deal at this point tbh, best we can probably do is just minimize the output of industrial pollutants and plug the holes in our waste management infrastructure, then try to bully everyone else into doing the same.

And I think "uptick" may be underselling it a bit, but you're otherwise probably right. Unless we have a military coup or some other crazy thing (and there's nothing special about America, it can happen here just as easily as it can happen in any other bloated, multicultural, multiethnic empire) come out of left field the most we'll see is domestic terrorism. Maybe Lebanon/Weimar Republic style party paramilitary fun will be had as well.

[smjjames]

Don’t know about the Weimar Republic situation (without looking it up atm, best I know is that it was just really corrupt and ineffective), but what I think I know about Lebanon is that they have one PM or at least representative for Christians, one for Sunni, and one for Shia, or maybe it’s on a rotating basis. Given how the religious makeup is nowhere close to what led Lebanon to its situation, I don’t see that happening to the US.

As for a military coup, I suppose if you wait long enough, it could happen, but the military culture needs to be amenable to a coup, which we’ve been careful about. More likely it’ll happen via some bloodless means such as section four of the 25th amendment. Then again on that one, they were imagining a much more dire scenario than an awake and screaming Trump, they made it as an answer to a what if Kennedy had managed to survive but was in a coma. It does read like a legalized coup, but made for a particularity dire and specific kind  situation where you’d want the ability.

In actually looking at Wikipedia, the Weimar Republic failed in part due to that Germany had limited democratic traditions* at that point and the parties were hugely inexperienced when the government was formed. Though Wikipedia states that there are a whole host of reasons leading to its failure.

[Max™]

So I was looking at the G20 coverage and I find myself astounded that someone could be so fucking spoiled and ignorant to just wander in to the middle of groups of powerful people--ones who are actively discussing and working on important problems and aggrements on an international scale--and just act as though they somehow belong there.

No, they have to make things worse because they in fact have no clue how unwelcome they truly are yet it is pointless to try and explain any of this because they have no sense of shame or humility thanks to daddy giving them everything and pulling strings to get them included in these types of events and meetings despite a complete lack of basic qualifications.

...did he have to bring his daughter along for the ride as well?

[Folly]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1146501820593967104

Great job by Border Patrol, above and beyond. Many of these illegals aliens are living far better now than where they came from, and in far safer conditions.

This from the man pushing to send them back where they came from.