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[Kagus]

But, Saudi Arabia is far more of military dictatorship juggernaut than Egypt ever was.

Well, at least since, like, Rameses II...


Also, wasn't there talk before about Saudi Arabia wanting to be the premiere weapons producer/supplier in the Middle East, so they wanted to foment as much conflict as possible in order to ensure their market?

[Dunamisdeos]

in 2018, a law was put into place where women were allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia.

Gotta be an Islamophobe to take issue with that timescale.

[Egan_BW]

Well, it's at least movement in a positive direction, though it doesn't paint a good picture.

[PTTG??]

Trump supporters are so god-damned pathetic. They're falling over themselves to show how gullible they are. While the ship owners and other nations are denying that it was an Iranian attack, they are saying that Iranians attacked a Japanese oil tanker, while they were negotiating with Japan, with limpet mines. They further assert that one of the limpets failed to detonate, and the iranians, fearing they might be discovered, went out there in a boat and took the remaining explosive while on camera... this to better assure their stealth.

If we actually need to fight them, and that's the effectiveness of their armed forces, why should we deploy troops when we can just wait for them to three-stooges themselves to death?

[Dunamisdeos]

If it helps, all my Trump supporter friends are firmly in the position that its "fishy" and someone is trying to frame Iran and goad us into attacking.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

but what if it wasn't orchestrated by the us military like all the other ones guys

this time

what if

[Dunamisdeos]

Yeah like I don't want to be a conspiracy asshole but we are the only ones with the 90's-era-quality black and white surveillance footage that shows an unmarked boat blowing up the tanker and then we immediately blame Iran.

What noone taking US military surveillance had anything on the level of a 5-year old smartphone to work with there?

[Zangi]

Building casus belli and popular support to invade another country for black gold and being democratic in the wrong way.

[hector13]

Britain is taking the tack that it was the Iranians ‘cause nobody else in the region has the resources to do it.

I was somewhat confused over how the Iranians removing unexploded ordinance from a vessel is solid proof they did it. Surely the Japanese would’ve been all “hey, that unexploded ordinance, could you get it off please?” ‘cause carrying unexploded ordinance for thousands of miles is probably a Bad Idea.

I think Trump is just trying the age-old technique of starting a war so he looks good and strong for an election.

[Dunamisdeos]

I wanna wait for the investigation results, but yeah, I'm gonna stand in the camp of US incompetent chicanery for now.

[smjjames]

Trump supporters are so god-damned pathetic. They're falling over themselves to show how gullible they are. While the ship owners and other nations are denying that it was an Iranian attack, they are saying that Iranians attacked a Japanese oil tanker, while they were negotiating with Japan, with limpet mines. They further assert that one of the limpets failed to detonate, and the iranians, fearing they might be discovered, went out there in a boat and took the remaining explosive while on camera... this to better assure their stealth.

If we actually need to fight them, and that's the effectiveness of their armed forces, why should we deploy troops when we can just wait for them to three-stooges themselves to death?

Since the Iranian Republican Guard operates like a rogue military branch, I can believe that happening with bombing a Japanese tanker while talking with the Japanese PM.

Yeah like I don't want to be a conspiracy asshole but we are the only ones with the 90's-era-quality black and white surveillance footage that shows an unmarked boat blowing up the tanker and then we immediately blame Iran.

What noone taking US military surveillance had anything on the level of a 5-year old smartphone to work with there?

It was unmarked? Hm. You know, I'm also wondering how the tanker crew didn't notice a possibly unidentified boat coming alongside them. Sure, they could have taken advantage of chaos when the explosion happened but an unidentified boat coming alongside them would be pretty suspicious just about anywhere.

The fact that it's in black and white is odd also, unless maybe it's thermal, but no mention was made of it being a thermal nighttime image, which could also explain how they didn't notice the ship coming alongside them.

Britain is taking the tack that it was the Iranians ‘cause nobody else in the region has the resources to do it.

I was somewhat confused over how the Iranians removing unexploded ordinance from a vessel is solid proof they did it. Surely the Japanese would’ve been all “hey, that unexploded ordinance, could you get it off please?” ‘cause carrying unexploded ordinance for thousands of miles is probably a Bad Idea.

I think Trump is just trying the age-old technique of starting a war so he looks good and strong for an election.

I suppose the obvious answer would be that the unexploded ordiance would get discovered sooner or later and the origin of it could probably be determined easily, not to mention military hardware falling into the hands of people they don't want it to fall into the hands of.

I hadn't heard anything about the ship owners saying it wasn't Iran, though I saw something about the captian of the Japanese ship saying that something came flying at them and guess what, the same day, an Iranian ship in the area fired a missile at an US drone and missed. So, it's plausible that maybe one of those missiles missed and just happened to hit the tanker ship.

[Il Palazzo]

Come now. Moustache Bolton has been spoiling for a fight with Iran since forever. It doesn't even matter who attacked the tanker. All you need is a pretext, so why not kill the nuclear deal, reinstate the economic sanctions, put military presence in the area, and wait for somebody that can be linked to Iran - no matter if government controlled or not - to lash out.

[sluissa]

It was unmarked? Hm. You know, I'm also wondering how the tanker crew didn't notice a possibly unidentified boat coming alongside them. Sure, they could have taken advantage of chaos when the explosion happened but an unidentified boat coming alongside them would be pretty suspicious just about anywhere.

The fact that it's in black and white is odd also, unless maybe it's thermal, but no mention was made of it being a thermal nighttime image, which could also explain how they didn't notice the ship coming alongside them.

Ok, not to argue against the case, because I'm all for this conspiracy theory, but most security footage is black and white and low resolution because storage is an issue. Cameras are cheap, you can look at anything you want in great quality. But storing it for any length of time is going to be an issue if you've got even a couple of high quality cameras recording 24/7.

As for unmarked boats approaching without being seen. It was just two years ago that we had a freighter ram a US Navy destroyer off the coast of Japan and never even realize it until roughly 20 minutes later. Commercial shipping is notoriously understaffed and they're very large. Depending on size perhaps only a single person on the bridge at any given time. That's assuming they're strict enough to even do that and not just rely on autopilot and radar to warn them of anything big enough to bother them...

It's all plausable. But so is a conspiracy.

[Teneb]

It was unmarked? Hm. You know, I'm also wondering how the tanker crew didn't notice a possibly unidentified boat coming alongside them. Sure, they could have taken advantage of chaos when the explosion happened but an unidentified boat coming alongside them would be pretty suspicious just about anywhere.

The fact that it's in black and white is odd also, unless maybe it's thermal, but no mention was made of it being a thermal nighttime image, which could also explain how they didn't notice the ship coming alongside them.

Ok, not to argue against the case, because I'm all for this conspiracy theory, but most security footage is black and white and low resolution because storage is an issue. Cameras are cheap, you can look at anything you want in great quality. But storing it for any length of time is going to be an issue if you've got even a couple of high quality cameras recording 24/7.

As for unmarked boats approaching without being seen. It was just two years ago that we had a freighter ram a US Navy destroyer off the coast of Japan and never even realize it until roughly 20 minutes later. Commercial shipping is notoriously understaffed and they're very large. Depending on size perhaps only a single person on the bridge at any given time. That's assuming they're strict enough to even do that and not just rely on autopilot and radar to warn them of anything big enough to bother them...

It's all plausable. But so is a conspiracy.

The area also is the hunting grounds of Somali pirates, so small unmarked ships aren't exactly rare (though they are always a source of worry).


Might've been the Saudis that did it instead of US proper, though.

[smjjames]

It was unmarked? Hm. You know, I'm also wondering how the tanker crew didn't notice a possibly unidentified boat coming alongside them. Sure, they could have taken advantage of chaos when the explosion happened but an unidentified boat coming alongside them would be pretty suspicious just about anywhere.

The fact that it's in black and white is odd also, unless maybe it's thermal, but no mention was made of it being a thermal nighttime image, which could also explain how they didn't notice the ship coming alongside them.

Ok, not to argue against the case, because I'm all for this conspiracy theory, but most security footage is black and white and low resolution because storage is an issue. Cameras are cheap, you can look at anything you want in great quality. But storing it for any length of time is going to be an issue if you've got even a couple of high quality cameras recording 24/7.

As for unmarked boats approaching without being seen. It was just two years ago that we had a freighter ram a US Navy destroyer off the coast of Japan and never even realize it until roughly 20 minutes later. Commercial shipping is notoriously understaffed and they're very large. Depending on size perhaps only a single person on the bridge at any given time. That's assuming they're strict enough to even do that and not just rely on autopilot and radar to warn them of anything big enough to bother them...

It's all plausable. But so is a conspiracy.

The area also is the hunting grounds of Somali pirates, so small unmarked ships aren't exactly rare (though they are always a source of worry).


Might've been the Saudis that did it instead of US proper, though.

It's on the other side of the Arabian penninsula from Somalia, if they were expecting pirates, they wouldn't be from Somalia. Also, pirates tend to not try and sink their targets, or at least blow a hole in it and attract attention. No idea if Iran meant to sink those two tanker ships, but if the intent was to sink them, then they clearly failed.