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[Lord Shonus]

-snip-

Asimov's laws of robotics were also specifically designed to cause conflicts and paradoxes, rather than avoid them... Because, y'know, a story where everything works as it should and everything goes well generally won't be a very interesting story to read.

As for my friend, yeah, she's a cute kid and things have (outwardly) managed to work out. The complete flake of a boyfriend even managed to show up to his own wedding, not to mention the rest of the child's life.

Would it have been nice to finish high school? Probably. But that's not something to think about anymore; the course of life has been determined and there's not much to do about it.

And since she's done her job of producing a child, she's actually gotten a lot of help and support from her family, which was of course instrumental to not-dying.


For me personally? ... I have a mental illness, one that can potentially be inherited. I have genetic history of mental illness, with a psychopathic aunt and a great-grandmother who decided to bring her youngest child along for a murder-suicide.

And even if I didn't, I know how much pain I've lived through, in the hands of two well-to-do parents who loved me very much and thought the world of me. I even had the luxury of having a stay-at-home mom.

If I could go so wrong with that kind of a start... How fucking badly could I destroy the life of my own child?

My old man got beat with a tire iron for most of his childhood. His little brother and sisters also got beat, and so did his mother.

Never laid a finger on me (OK, occasional spankings). He made a decision to break that cycle and he was successful. Genetic concerns are certainly something to think about, but you aren't simply the sum of your family history, and your child would not be either.

I have a similar history. From the stories I've heard, my father's father was a irrational drunk with a hair-trigger temper. He was also prone to violent outbursts. Not, mind you, to the point where his family was overly scared of him or hated him, but enough that they were very aware of it. My own father avoided this, and applied mild violence only when me, my sister, or one of my cousins did something incredibly dangerous -like forcing a four-year-old to walk across an expressway in the early evening-, or tried to cover up something dangerous.

In my grandfather's case, at least, we know what the problem was. He had a very hard war (came back from the Pacific with four or five Japanese bullets in him, and a chestful of medals because he was much better at killing Japanese then they were at killing him), and never got any kind of mental health treatment. His rages were almost certainly the result of untreated PTSD aggravated by the alcohol he was self-medicating with.

[Dunamisdeos]

Yeah I had to consider genetic problems too, I have a history of a couple of conditions in my family. But that's a personal choice that you have to make, and I don't think anyone can judge you one way or another. Especially given how different one person's situation can be from another. I'm sure that a doctor can advise you of the specific risks, such as the actual likelihood of various conditions being passed down if you ever really consider having kids.

My step-grandfather, the violent one, also had a history of abuse from his father. I forget the details but it was worse than the tire iron. In his mind he was going easy, I think he said as much once or twice.

Point is though, yeah, genetic concerns are a real thing. But you can be a good father even if you have a history of.... difficulty, I guess, to put it broadly. You decide who you will be in that regard. Frankly the fact that it concerns you is probably the best indicator possible that you are capable of rising above.

[Folly]

You all talk about breaking the cycle, but the cycle is far more nefarious than that.

A child learns from the mistakes of his father, and because of those experiences he decides to be a better person with his own children. But then his children never have those experiences to learn from, and when they become fathers themselves they repeat the mistakes of their ancestors. It's kind of a catch-22.

[Dunamisdeos]

I don't think that kids turn out worse because their fathers do a good job and avoid the mistakes of the past? I assume that not what you're trying to say, but it is what you've said :3

[PTTG??]

I kind of have a hard time believing that Mr. Roger's kids would ever grow up to be violent.

[George_Chickens]

My father passed on to me child beating genes, so I have an insatiable urge to lock the limbs of children when I see them in a DF style wrestling system.

[LordBaal]

In my case it wasnt beatings, that would have implied I spent enough time with him. Fortunately the role got picked by my grandfather that was the sweetest dude in the world, with all his defects he never laid a hand on me.

My biological father wasn't evil or anything really, actually a pretty cool guy with lots of love to give, to the point of having 10 brothers and sisters by my father's side and counting, only 3 of them were from same mother, 2 of which are already dead.

I didn't hate him or anything but even since before knowing how babies were made I made a vow of never doing the same that he did regarding childs. I married the most beautiful girl and  a single kid with her. In time if we manage to escape here we migth have another one. The point is I'll raise my son to make sure or at least give a hell of a try for him to follow my example,

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

megaplayboy genes or not.

[McTraveller]

WTF is with the inflation report saying only 1.3%?

I've got a few fixed costs that are not rising, but absolutely every other variable expense in my budget is more expensive by as much as 10% per category.  The only way I can reduce my expenditures is by cutting consumption, not by getting more bang for my buck.

[Dunamisdeos]

I kind of have a hard time believing that Mr. Roger's kids would ever grow up to be violent.

Spoiler: Have you seen his puppets though. (click to show/hide)

This thing should be a SCP.

[nenjin]

I'm also feeling the pinch, but I don't know where it started or why. I haven't changed my expenditures in easily two years, yet somehow I'm dipping in to savings a little more each month.

I know I could cut costs in a few places like eating regular-sized meals rather than "more meat please" or drinking Folgers instead of buying actual coffee beans....but who the hell wants to live like that?

Also based on the "i'm so fucking angry at you I don't know how to discipline you so I guess I'll whip/paddle/spank you" I got from my dad growing up, if I ever have kids then physical discipline will be my last resort. Getting physically disciplined as a kid hasn't like, made me vow to never hit a child because honestly....sometimes that's the only method that breaks though a kid who basically refuses to listen or obey by any other means.

But I remember receiving a whipping from my dad for what seemed like incredibly minor things I didn't even realize would result in that. As I grew older I kinda realized....he didn't really know what he was doing. He just felt at his wits end and so really no matter what I did, his overriding goal was to make sure I never did it again. Physical discipline certainly accomplished that...but not in the way he thought it would. Did I never ruin another toy by stuff a smoke bomb down its neck? Sure, never did that after getting a paddling. Did the beatings stop me from engaging in risky teenage behavior like driving too fast, having unprotected sex or doing drugs? No, it didn't have the slightest bearing on that stuff. All the beatings really did was teach me to walk on eggshells around my dad, to avoid triggering him. But that was honestly just 10 or 20% of my life growing up.

Beatings can correct or prevent very specific issues. But in general all it really does is teach you to fear and/or resent the giver of the beatings. It's kind of like disciplining an animal. If you beat an animal in response to a specific behavior, chances are they won't engage in that one behavior anymore. But their perception of the beating is tied to that one behavior. You won't produce a "good boy" by hitting your dog, he just won't shit on the carpet in that one specific spot.

Beating your kids doesn't make them better people all around. It teaches them more about their parent than it does the one act that got them the beating in the first place.

[Kagus]

I remember watching parents in India, and also hearing stories from the neighborhood kids about their families and schoolteachers. Corporal punishment is the No. 1 go-to, at least where we were staying... Teacher asks you a question and you get it wrong? You get beaten with a stick. You make noise when you shouldn't be making noise? You get beaten with a stick. You get a little too rowdy on the playground and irritate the groundskeeper? He grabs hold of you and smacks you around the head a bit. You get home and are dirty from being on the playground? Mom smacks you a bit, and then dad beats you with a nearby object for irritating your mother.

Were the kids all tidy and upright citizens who never stepped out of line? Fuck no, they were all over the place. Everything earned them a beating, so why care? Fearless little shits... We watched a neighbor on his balcony beating his kids over the head with an empty glass bottle, and both of the kids were just laughing in his face between bonks. It meant nothing to them anymore.


And yeah... Even if I didn't feel like I'm doing a shitty job of feeding/clothing/cleaning up after myself let alone someone else, I have noticed with the dogs that I've developed a much shorter temper than I used to possess... Consequence of becoming more self-confident and standing up for myself, I guess. I just... I look at what the best intentions of my parents earned me when I was growing up, and I can't see why I should be any more confident that I won't make the same mistakes.

I don't know. It's also gonna be a while before I get to the point of actually supporting myself with gainful employment and being able to get off of welfare, and I don't think it's fair to laden a kid with being a welfare baby either.

And, of course, first things first... Actually finding a partner I trust and am capable of getting along with for the long-term. And that I'd want to have kids with.

[Folly]

While I certainly sympathize with children who received more than their fair share of physical abuse, at the same time I don't think it's a one-sided issue. There are many different types of people in the world, and many types of children with different types of minds. Some learn best by sitting them down and explaining things to them in clear terms. Others will ignore any words you say to them and refuse to change their bad behavior unless they are shown that there will be physical consequences. And, short of expensive and impractical psychoanalysis for every child, there just isn't any practical way for determining what type of parenting is most appropriate for any given child. The best policy we can reasonably implement is to trust the judgement of the people who have spent the most time with the children, their parents.

[Kagus]

I knew a chick who fed her 3-year-old potato chips for dinner along with her twice-daily energy drink mix.

She was, uh... A strange lady. No idea how the kid's doing these days.

[Gentlefish]

uhhh. Define "energy drink mix"? Like powdered fucking monster or something in a bottle?

Because that child will be a wreck if they're ever weaned off of that.

[Dunamisdeos]

It's a fine line, and difficult to define. If your intent is to teach rather than to punish, you won't, or at least will very rarely, run into a point where corporal punishment becomes a necessity in disciplining a child. I think the main issue is that beatings for everything do not communicate consequences as a direct result of their actions, the goal of any discipline. Beatings only communicate that violating your whims results in violence. There's no connection with their actions, and no lesson learned. Therefore, they will grow up believing that one day it will be their turn to be the adult, and their whims will rule over others.

Essentially, beating your kid because he tried to run into traffic means he does not learn that running into traffic results in danger because cars are dangerous, but instead that offending my dad results in beatings, because offending people bigger than me means they have an excuse to beat me.

That said, if I saw a parent using force to discipline a child in a way that wasn't going to cause injury (a spanking, etc) I would assume that, barring any other obvious indicators, that they have run out of other options.

Violence is also something that carries an instinctive negative meaning. I have had instances where I have smacked my kid on the hand with so little force that it would not break an egg, but the act itself carried enough meaning that the message got through where words alone were not. No tears cried or marks left on child, but the message that this was not ok was received.

I knew a chick who fed her 3-year-old potato chips for dinner along with her twice-daily energy drink mix.

She was, uh... A strange lady. No idea how the kid's doing these days.

Spoiler: Feeding a three-year-old an energy drink sounds like a great way for PARENTS to learn about the consequences of their actions. (click to show/hide)