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[Karnewarrior]

I'm kind of worried about the next election. I can see another manipulated victory, especially since now they have a man who's been as inside as you can get for four years.

[Dunamisdeos]

I'm kind of worried about the next election. I can see another manipulated victory, especially since now they have a man who's been as inside as you can get for four years.

That's like, every election, though, with the four years thing.

But yeah I think we are particularly susceptible. I think we lost because we got remarkably complacent. We congratulated ourselves without actually doing anything to ensure victory.

Literally just need to walk outside and vote, folks. Recent non-POTUS elections have shown us that, I think.

[smjjames]

The problem though with impeachment is that it's inherently a political proccess and theres no way that it's going to get through the Senate. I've read an article or two saying that it should be treated as an investigative tool, but theres no getting around the fact that it'll be thrown around to maximize support during an election.

I have an idea though, instead of pursuing the impeachment stuff, the candidates should run in part on the corruption and bad acts, possibly suring the general. Then again, part of the problem in 2016 was that Clinton didn't run in ideas as much as she should have.

I'm kind of worried about the next election. I can see another manipulated victory, especially since now they have a man who's been as inside as you can get for four years.

He's an insider by default, but to his base, he's THEIR insider. Since it's going to be under the purview of the RNC, I doubt any kind of manipulation is going to happen, but if you mean losing the popular and winning the EC, that's certainly a non-zero plausibility.

I tend to agree with that.

Ousting him with just about anything short of the most extreme cases of irrefutable criminal evidence, is going to do more harm than good to democrats, in the long run.

Most of his supporters will never believe it, no matter what you throw in front of them, but there's a good chunk of them who, while supportive of the policies, are still on the fence about the guy himself. If he's taken down on a technicality despite being "loved", that's as close to political martyrdom as you're going to get. If it just goes to the next election, and he's simply voted out, there will be plenty of whining and screaming, but it's a much harder sell that he was taken down unfairly.

Just let the evidence act as a stand in for mudslinging in the campaign. Put up a good candidate. Don't do anything stupid. Avoid giving him ammunition as much as possible.

Now if you can get video of him taking orders from Papa Putin, then by all means... go for it... but anything short of that is likely going to be a battle not really worth fighting, even if you do end up winning.

I'm as frustrated as anyone, but patience is something we can't afford to lose.

I agree here as well, taking him down in an election would be the best bet since an impeachment in the middle of the election is just going to make things worse. Trying to impeach him after the election would certainly look EVEN MORE political than it normally would, but short of some equivalent of the Nixon tapes, it's not going to work well.

I'm kind of worried about the next election. I can see another manipulated victory, especially since now they have a man who's been as inside as you can get for four years.

That's like, every election, though, with the four years thing.

But yeah I think we are particularly susceptible. I think we lost because we got remarkably complacent. We congratulated ourselves without actually doing anything to ensure victory.

Literally just need to walk outside and vote, folks. Recent non-POTUS elections have shown us that, I think.

Given how unpopular BOTH candidates were and Clinton winning 3 million more votes is probably one of the least contributing factors. Sure, it could have been an issue, but it was part of a whole host of factors.

[Kagus]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/20/donald-trump-robert-mueller-presidents-men

How exactly did we get to the point where this kind of satirical circus act could actually take place?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

First as tragedy...

[PTTG??]

Impeaching him isn't a matter of partisan attack, it's a constitutional necessity. If our leaders can't act to punish clear wrongdoing, then it we give up on the rule of law entirely.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Our leaders aren't going to punish his clear wrongdoing.

What do you want to do now?

[Trolldefender99]

I still think Turmp was the mole created by Russia and maybe Turkey I think it is (or is it Iran?) since he still has businesses running in one of those nations and has major business deals with them. That should been investigated more as well. A president can't have businesses as far as I know as president. But looks like maybe the Obama adminstration had a hand in it either through in-action or just not caring enough, which is a shame if this article by CNN is true as Obama has been my favorite president since Bill Clinton. But if the Russia interference is from all the way from 2014, it wouldn't look good on him and just makes me think all politicians are just the same.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/19/opinions/mueller-report-obama-jennings/index.html

Does who one vote for even matter? I thought Obama was pretty perfect as presidents go, but if indeed Russia had their hand in US politics (from when it was known) since 2014...then how many of the politicians in the US are actually just russian moles, plants or have their hand in russia's cookie jar so to speak? This has really pissed me off, more than the turmp (purposely mispelled cause I hate typing his name) supporters and their stupid celebration.

I still like andrew yang though as far as politicians go. It doesn't seem like he may have much of a chance though. Even if taxes go up to support 1k a month basic income, there are tons of people who would still benefit from it and the people with money can pay up their money and help the poor as far as I'm concerned. But thats coming from someone who can't even afford a basic upgrade to a 9 year old computer, and barely pays rent.

[Max™]

Our leaders aren't going to punish his clear wrongdoing.

What do you want to do now?

[Clippy]It seems like you're having trouble with your government, have you considered unplugging it and plugging it back in again?[/Clippy]

Anybody ever noticed Clippy wearing a Guy Fawkes mask before? Is that new?

[SalmonGod]

Impeaching him isn't a matter of partisan attack, it's a constitutional necessity. If our leaders can't act to punish clear wrongdoing, then it we give up on the rule of law entirely.

We lost that fight already in 2008, when Democrats not only refused to pursue consequences for Bush's crimes against humanity and weakening of domestic civil rights enabled by brazen lies to the public, but then refused to reinstate those civil rights and turned around and awarded him a goddamn liberty medal.

While their careers may be based on public displays of opposition to each other, they still have more in common with each other than they do with us.  Even if they don't all engage in the same bad behaviors such as, say, taking bribe money, they will still naturally view the issue from a different position than we will.  We have little need to question if we might be faced with such a temptation in a moment of weakness or stupidity.  They do.  They all have a vested interest in obstructing precedents that may be turned on them one day.  It's the same principle behind good cops obstructing justice against bad cops.  In a public-facing context, they will symbolically distance themselves and beg us to understand that they're not all the same.  But they'll be thinking to themselves "what if I fuck up someday in a way that looks bad."  They don't have to all be the same to still have a shared culture and incentive for professional solidarity in conflict with ethical duty to the public.  That is only overcome by the public engaging in direct action.

Here's a thought. 

I've been seeing all this outrage the last couple years over Russian influence in American politics.  It's been used so fiercely and passionately as a full stop justification for condemning anyone associated with Trump, and to reinforce this conviction that it was of supreme importance to support anyone other than trump no matter what to protect the sovereignty of our government and so on.

Can we get the same outrage against Israeli influence?  Let's see what's left of American politics after that -- Democrat or Republican. 

I hate the republican party as much as anyone... but it's really hard for me to be on board with the passion the left has invested in the russian meddling controversy.  It reeks of the same short-sighted partisan tribalism that is normally being driven by republicans.  Because if the principles behind it were applied universally, the U.S. political field on both sides would be scorched earth.

[Teneb]

Our leaders aren't going to punish his clear wrongdoing.

What do you want to do now?

[Clippy]It seems like you're having trouble with your government, have you considered unplugging it and plugging it back in again?[/Clippy]

Anybody ever noticed Clippy wearing a Guy Fawkes mask before? Is that new?

If your government doesn't make you happy, you should get rid of it!

[A Thing]

The government is definitely not sparking joy in me right now.

[Doomblade187]

One of the issues with foreign influence in politics is that it's getting easier and easier to happen. While i'm not opposed to moving towards a more centralized government overall, people acting against their nations best interests is likely to get more and more common, due to increasing interconnectedness and globalization.

[bloop_bleep]

I dunno, it actually makes me glad that we haven't completely degenerated to the point of blind obedience to Trump, and and that people won't not everybody will commit serious crimes at his bidding.

[Frumple]

But if the Russia interference is from all the way from 2014, it wouldn't look good on him and just makes me think all politicians are just the same.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/19/opinions/mueller-report-obama-jennings/index.html

Please pay attention to who wrote that pile of bullshit.

Also consider who has been noted as one of the driving forces behind Obama's relatively hands off reaction to potential interference (I.e. goddamn Mitch McConnell). You shouldn't have much trouble connecting dots vis a vis how much weight you should give a jag-off op-ed. All politicians aren't even goddamn remotely the same and it's bloody close to far-right propaganda to claim that they are at this point. It's a premise that downplays hard just what level of colossal shitpile our right-wing politicians have become.

I hate the republican party as much as anyone... but it's really hard for me to be on board with the passion the left has invested in the russian meddling controversy.

It's probably worth noting that actual left-ways politicians haven't been investing much passion into russia's meddling with our elections. Not happy about it, but it's not some kind of consuming focus. The two driving forces behind the reason the issue's getting signal boosted so hard is the fourth estate shitting the bed again and discussion getting stuck on it because the media keeps blabbering about it (well, that and like every other day it coming out the GOP was either in bed with them or played like rubes). Interference in general isn't a good thing, but folks probably aren't as tied up in it as you'd think.