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[sluissa]

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/03/it-turns-out-beto-orourke-stole-phone-service-pirated-software-as-a-kid/

O'Rourke officially earns the right to skateboard out onto any stage he wants.

[Pumble]

I'm not sure this parallel exactly works. It sort of fits regarding the Muller investigation (again, absent the antisemitism angle from the Dreyfus affair) but not the culture war in general. For the former it seems we have three basic camps:

Left: Believe Trump is guilty and would ratfuck him even if we knew he was innocent of this particular accusation due to his immorality. Does not believe in the Muller investigation and do not expect Trump to be removed from office regardless. Generally believe Trump is just the chosen icon of America's sickness rather than the source.

Center: Believe Trump is probably guilty and want to prove it to the world with FACTS and LOGIC. Mostly would not ratfuck him if they had proof of his innocence. Believe in the Muller investigation and are divided on the ability of Congress to remove Trump from office. Generally believe that everything can go back to normal if Trump is removed from office.

Right: Believe Trump is innocent even if he's guilty. Believes Muller is either a traitor or alternatively working with Trump in secret. Believe Democrats in Congress are drawing up a drumhead court as we speak and that Republicans in Congress are hostile to Trump and will turn on him in a heartbeat. Generally believe Trump will inevitably overcome and secretly masturbate to the thought of him ordering Congress machine-gunned as traitors.

The part about the Right made me lol

[Frumple]

Good point, honestly I'd like to know what historians think about all this.  Supposedly they help us avoid making the same mistakes...  with the strength of all our past experiences.  I'd like to see what they've come up with.

I'm not sure how exactly to search for that right now, so I'm asking for good examples.

Most of the time I've noticed much being said by historians, it's been variously shrill chittering about fascism and whatnot. Holy shit stop doing what you're doing kinda' stuff.

[sluissa]

The problem with history is it's not the perfect teacher. Even when we have a solid image of the past and consequences of certain actions, there are still enough variable different between the past and present that there's no guarantee that if you follow the lessons of history you'll have the outcome you want.

All that said, society has pretty much said "fuck learning" for the past couple of decades and it doesn't really matter anyway. Individual experts can warn of their predictions all they want. Nobody is listening.

[smjjames]

True, and the fact that it's happening in an era of social media means that there literally isn't a historical parallel since social media is a critical catalyst for all of this.

[SalmonGod]

IMO, the best parallels would be previous upheavals related to disruptive advances in technology (especially communications, such as the printing press).  I've been comparing the significance of the advent of the internet to the printing press (except even greater) for forever. 

This doesn't tell us much about what to do or how to expect things to play out... but it makes a period of anxiety and upheaval of social order quite unsurprising.

[Lord Shonus]

I sincerely hope that we don't have a repeat of the upheavals caused by the printing press. It took about a century to take effect, but the result was pretty striking.


The end result was called the "Thirty Years War". Also several "Peasant War"s. Not only was this even worse for the Germanies than either World War, it helped set the things up.

[Trolldefender99]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/18/politics/cnn-poll-trump-economy-tech/index.html

Well bobblehead's approval somehow went up, though most not happy with the wall which is a good thing. But even with whats been going on, somehow trump approval rating is still relatively stable and is even higher...wtf?

Granted, my stance is I'm not happy with either side, I think both sides are just the same penny on other sides of the coin with things both sides say and do. I think someone like obama needs to get to center stage and top of the democratic party polls, all I see topping democratic primaries (as I saw yesterday on CNN its biden and bernie) is old men that...well to put it bluntly...are more white politicians. like more of the same except not republican. I think its time someone of muslim descent tops the chart, or even one of spanish descent or anyone but the ones topping current polls...not just same ole same ole. I do like bernie and biden...but it be nice to see someone not like them top the charts and really bring diversity in presidency.

[smjjames]

IMO, the best parallels would be previous upheavals related to disruptive advances in technology (especially communications, such as the printing press).  I've been comparing the significance of the advent of the internet to the printing press (except even greater) for forever. 

This doesn't tell us much about what to do or how to expect things to play out... but it makes a period of anxiety and upheaval of social order quite unsurprising.

Yeah, you're probably right since what we're seeing here in the US isn't isolated to the US, it's very much a worldwide phenomenon with some variation.

I sincerely hope that we don't have a repeat of the upheavals caused by the printing press. It took about a century to take effect, but the result was pretty striking.


The end result was called the "Thirty Years War". Also several "Peasant War"s. Not only was this even worse for the Germanies than either World War, it helped set the things up.

One should note that the 'Thirty Years war' was part of the Protestant Reformation, which had conflicts all over.

For the internet, we're already starting to see the disruptions, but even the internet needed time to mature and for the generation who grew up with it, to, well, become adults. Mark Zuckerberg is a year younger than me btw.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/18/politics/cnn-poll-trump-economy-tech/index.html

Well bobblehead's approval somehow went up, though most not happy with the wall which is a good thing. But even with whats been going on, somehow trump approval rating is still relatively stable and is even higher...wtf?

It's been remarkably stable from the start, with an apparent floor of around 38% and an apparent ceiling of around 42%.

Granted, my stance is I'm not happy with either side, I think both sides are just the same penny on other sides of the coin with things both sides say and do. I think someone like obama needs to get to center stage and top of the democratic party polls, all I see topping democratic primaries (as I saw yesterday on CNN its biden and bernie) is old men that...well to put it bluntly...are more white politicians. like more of the same except not republican. I think its time someone of muslim descent tops the chart, or even one of spanish descent or anyone but the ones topping current polls...not just same ole same ole. I do like bernie and biden...but it be nice to see someone not like them top the charts and really bring diversity in presidency.

A good deal of that is likely just name recognition, it'll definetly start moving once the debates begin.

[Trolldefender99]

yeah, especially with Biden (even more than bernie), is the name recognition+coincides with one of the most popular modern president of our time. Plus biden was a decent vice president as far as I knew. Didn't see really anything negative about him. And still he is a ton better than what we have now. I just rather see diversity, thats just my opinion of it. Thats why I like democrats is they advertise diversity and acceptance, but not seeing that current in the top polling candidates. Maybe as it progresses it can change.

[Kagus]

Well, to be fair, Obama wasn't exactly revolutionary either. He did a lot of good stuff, like the ACA, but he also upheld his fair share of the status quo as far as the establishment was concerned. He was just a heck of a lot more attractive while doing it.

As far as actual legislation is concerned, Bernie's probably just as black as Obama. Obama of course had the power of his Big Black Caucus to pull from.


If it's really the window dressing that matters, we've already got an orange man in office... To top that, we'd have to convince one of the guys from Blue Man Group to run.

[Lord Shonus]

I sincerely hope that we don't have a repeat of the upheavals caused by the printing press. It took about a century to take effect, but the result was pretty striking.


The end result was called the "Thirty Years War". Also several "Peasant War"s. Not only was this even worse for the Germanies than either World War, it helped set the things up.

One should note that the 'Thirty Years war' was part of the Protestant Reformation, which had conflicts all over.

While the 30 years war was presented as a Protestant V Catholic conflict, it was, more than anything else, a full-blown civil war in the Holy Roman Empire combined with dynastic land grabs. The civil war part was largely fed by the way that increasingly educated peasants and guild members were beginning to organize and push for a more equitable system - less than a century before the Defenestration of Prague, the Swabians had to put down a 300,000 man peasant uprising.

The religious conflicts were mostly settled in the HRE by the establishment of Cuius regio, eius religio in the mid 1500s, which established that a ruler's religion determined the official religion of his realm.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/18/politics/cnn-poll-trump-economy-tech/index.html

Well bobblehead's approval somehow went up, though most not happy with the wall which is a good thing. But even with whats been going on, somehow trump approval rating is still relatively stable and is even higher...wtf?

Most of the recent polls (except Rassuman, which tend to give him an extra 6-7 points compared to everybody else) show him at around a ~40% approval rating. This is down from a peak in February, but is pretty close to where he started the year at. His polls have gone up since the shutdown ended, but that's closer to "reverting to mean" than it is anything else.

[Kagus]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/18/politics/cnn-poll-trump-economy-tech/index.html

Well bobblehead's approval somehow went up, though most not happy with the wall which is a good thing. But even with whats been going on, somehow trump approval rating is still relatively stable and is even higher...wtf?

Most of the recent polls (except Rassuman, which tend to give him an extra 6-7 points compared to everybody else) show him at around a ~40% approval rating. This is down from a peak in February, but is pretty close to where he started the year at. His polls have gone up since the shutdown ended, but that's closer to "reverting to mean" than it is anything else.

Still pretty good for a grapefruit with an anus.

[Trolldefender99]

This is from the thread about laughs, I didn't think this fit though it was the topic which wasn't very funny to me. But...it fits here cause it is kinda politics, as it involves stupid laws

lionel? (it *WAS* the 80s after all.. I did not name him.)

Well.. She put zoo grade iron bars around her attached carport garage, and planted honeysuckle under it to cover them, to keep the neighbors from having apoplectic fits every time he was in his enclosure, and just kept him as a pet.  Was actually rather playful, but large cats do not understand how to be gentle.  He tried to be a good kitty, but he became too possessive/demanding of my aunt, so she had to get rid of him several years later.  (He decided one day that he did not like how she left for work every day, and wanted her to stay, so he bumped her over, and then sat on her demanding head scratchies for hours. She decided that was not good behavior from a very large kitty, and got rid of him.)

Getting rid of a "pet" isn't very nice, but its understandable if someone doesn't realize how hard they are to keep. Thats better than abandoning it to the wild or whatever that many people do. Plus at least it wasnt like justin beiber who got to the airport and abandoned a monkey he tried bringing into the US. That was BS. And the stupid thing is, he barely gets punished if at all. If I did that, I'd be in prison cause I wouldn't able to pay the fine (did justin even get a fine? Slap on a wrist if he did, stupid).

Thats the same issue with wolfdogs. Which is also stupid. In california I believe it can be 75%? maybe even 90%? wolf, and rest dog. I think its 75% or around there. But the amount of care they take is crazy, and lots of them end up abandoned and living in sanctuaries. The thing that is most stupid about having a mostly wild wolf...is not related to the wolf, but yet somehow in california ferrets are illegal? but a mostly wild wolf with a tiny bit of dog is legal? WTF? That makes 0% sense at all, thats just the stupidest law ever. Even petsmart/petco sell ferret stuff in california. And I don't know how a mostly tame ferret can be illegal, but a wild and dangerous animal is legal...wtf...

Also to add. The common argument of ferrets being potentially invasive is nonsense. Otherwise all snakes, scorpions, spiders, aquatic pets, cats, dogs, anything potentially invasive would also be banned...so ferrets being a potential issue is nonsense when the state allows other things that can easily be invasive to be sold. There is lots of snakes sold that easily could be and have become invasive in other states. So them solely focusing on ferrets is stupid at best, when they allow other invasives to be sold. And cats/dogs do a ton of damage to the environment anyway, far more than ferrets or most anything else.

[Trekkin]

Also to add. The common argument of ferrets being potentially invasive is nonsense. Otherwise all snakes, scorpions, spiders, aquatic pets, cats, dogs, anything potentially invasive would also be banned...so ferrets being a potential issue is nonsense when the state allows other things that can easily be invasive to be sold. There is lots of snakes sold that easily could be and have become invasive in other states. So them solely focusing on ferrets is stupid at best, when they allow other invasives to be sold. And cats/dogs do a ton of damage to the environment anyway, far more than ferrets or most anything else.

They don't focus solely on ferrets; there are several common species of pet that are illegal in California, mainly different species of rodent but also ferrets and hedgehogs. The reason actually gets at the core of how invasive species management does triage: it matters not only whether an animal is physically capable of surviving in the wild, but also how controllable those wild colonies are and, most critically, the damage they might do to wildlife, agriculture, and people, which includes but is not limited to predation and disease on top of the normal environmental problems.

Ferrets in particular pose all the problems of feral cat colonies with the added benefit that they serve as a reservoir host for bovine tuberculosis. It's hardly "the stupidest law ever" or "nonsense" for a state with such a large dairy industry to want to keep out potential disease vectors, and neither wolfdogs nor snakes represent a comparable level of epidemic risk; salmonella's already everywhere and anything wolfdogs can catch, wild grey wolves can too. (If you're wondering, hedgehogs can carry bubonic plague, herpes, toxoplasmosis and a number of mycotic diseases as well as mycobacteria.)

A lot of laws that don't seem to make sense are actually the product of well-thought-out and highly multifactorial risk analysis on the part of the relevant agency. They're just bad at publicizing it.