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[Frumple]

Small qualifiers:

1) It's the 737 MAX, not just 737's in general.

2) The US only has, like, 60 of them.

3) They've been in the air since October 2017, not "years".

4) Official reports have not come out on either crash, so concluding that "there is absolutely no evidence that these crashes were related in any way to the hardware or software of the plane" is unsubstantiated. The FAA disagrees that it's not software related- both crash patterns indicate that the plane's software attempted to avert a stall due to bad inputs, causing them to nosedive.

Also, the "several countries" seem to be

Spoiler: these folks (click to show/hide)

UK
Oman
China
Singapore
Indonesia
Australia
Malaysia
Ireland
Iceland
Germany
France
Netherlands
Italy
Austria
Belgium
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
Greece
Latvia
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Dubai
India
Mongolia
Vietnam
Bermuda
Bulgaria
Croatia
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Hong Kong
Turkey
South Korea
Malta
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
UAE
Canada

Forty and a bit different countries. If it's an overreaction, it's certainly a wide spread one, heh.

E: Also hey, apparently manafort's up to about 7 and a half years with the second sentencing bout... and New York just hit him with indictments for something like sixteen assorted state level felonies. At this rate he might actually end up with as much time as they occasionally hit poor people with for janking a few hundred bucks.

[MrRoboto75]

E: Also hey, apparently manafort's up to about 7 and a half years with the second sentencing bout... and New York just hit him with indictments for something like sixteen assorted state level felonies. At this rate he might actually end up with as much time as they occasionally hit poor people with for janking a few hundred bucks.

Significantly less bullets in his chest though

[Ghills]

50 People Charged in College Admission Scandal

Rich people act like the rules don't apply to them. Shocking.

But I don't get it...don't tons of kids from all tax brackets get parents to do their homework for them all the time? I mean, nobody really believes that most children are getting through their educational years purely on their own merits, right? So then why is bribing your kid's way into college suddenly a big fat federal crime?

Everyone I knew during high school was definitely doing their own homework. Parents might answer questions, but none of them were even thinking about doing it for the kids. Data, as far as I know, bears out that most parents are not spending the hours required to do their kids homework.

[wierd]

My high school experience was more "OK Class, we are going to assign YET ANOTHER needlessly group oriented project worth 30% of your grade! I will assign your groups for you!  No, the obvious fact that I keep assigning sports team players to groups with high academic performers is not an indicator that I am cooking the grades to keep them eligible to play-- Even when I change my behavior in these assignments when you cheekily fail the group project on purpose to ruin that outcome!"

When I met those same "carried by other people's work" ball throwers in college, it was delightful to watch them suffer as their GPA tanked.

[Kagus]

Athletes make money. That's kinda the gist of it. College sports teams make buckets of money for their respective institutions, and you don't even have to pay them! Heck, some of the poor sods actually pay YOU for the pleasure of making you more cash!

High school level also has similar problems, but they're actually a bit less pronounced than, say, designing a number of university-level classes that are tailored to allow illiterate student athletes to successfully complete their "education".

[Rolan7]

My high school experience was more "OK Class, we are going to assign YET ANOTHER needlessly group oriented project worth 30% of your grade! I will assign your groups for you!  No, the obvious fact that I keep assigning sports team players to groups with high academic performers is not an indicator that I am cooking the grades to keep them eligible to play-- Even when I change my behavior in these assignments when you cheekily fail the group project on purpose to ruin that outcome!"

When I met those same "carried by other people's work" ball throwers in college, it was delightful to watch them suffer as their GPA tanked.

It's not all sunshine and rainbows for those high school athletes either, though.  Getting constantly rated and judged for their bodies, being promised financial security in exchange for acts of physical performance?  It doesn't excuse the "violent insecure jock bully" stereotype, but I think it helps explain why these minors develop that way.

The system really sucks for everybody as far as I can tell (except sports fans, I guess).  It's just reverse-MAD in that the first college that pulls out probably loses hardest.

[Trekkin]

It's not all sunshine and rainbows for those high school athletes either, though.  Getting constantly rated and judged for their bodies, being promised financial security in exchange for acts of physical performance?  It doesn't excuse the "violent insecure jock bully" stereotype, but I think it helps explain why these minors develop that way.

Nobody's making them compete, though, and if we're relying on sports to get students out of underserved communities, that in and of itself is a problem we need to fix.

Athletes make money. That's kinda the gist of it. College sports teams make buckets of money for their respective institutions, and you don't even have to pay them! Heck, some of the poor sods actually pay YOU for the pleasure of making you more cash!

High school level also has similar problems, but they're actually a bit less pronounced than, say, designing a number of university-level classes that are tailored to allow illiterate student athletes to successfully complete their "education".

They aren't directly profitable for most institutions.

[Rolan7]

It's not all sunshine and rainbows for those high school athletes either, though.  Getting constantly rated and judged for their bodies, being promised financial security in exchange for acts of physical performance?  It doesn't excuse the "violent insecure jock bully" stereotype, but I think it helps explain why these minors develop that way.

Nobody's making them compete, though, and if we're relying on sports to get students out of underserved communities, that in and of itself is a problem we need to fix.

Financial coercion is still coercion, but I think we agree.  Sports (and the military) is basically our answer to under-served communities, and it's not a good answer.  It's intentional and works just great for those in power, though.

They aren't directly profitable for most institutions.

Yup!  Not even the colleges profit from this (directly), but they're expected to do it anyway.  It's pretty awful.

[wierd]

This may seem harsh, and horrible, but I still think it is true:

Not EVERYONE *SHOULD* go to college.  When EVERYONE goes, the college degree becomes the new highschool diploma, with all the dilution that brings, and with even bigger costs on society as the costs of the new baseline education spirals out of control.

Look, I understand that every parent wants their kid to have the very best they can get, but that is not what is healthy for society.   Look at the recent "Admissions for bribes!" scandals that recently came out.  How is that healthy for society?

[Zangi]

Murrican Tradition and what-not.

Also, Murrica is kind of bought up on the college = high paying job thing.  Yuge pressure on kids to go college or bust when they could get reliable paying work in... (what was the word?) specialties like electrician and plumbing.

[Hanslanda]

This may seem harsh, and horrible, but I still think it is true:

Not EVERYONE *SHOULD* go to college.  When EVERYONE goes, the college degree becomes the new highschool diploma, with all the dilution that brings, and with even bigger costs on society as the costs of the new baseline education spirals out of control.

Look, I understand that every parent wants their kid to have the very best they can get, but that is not what is healthy for society.   Look at the recent "Admissions for bribes!" scandals that recently came out.  How is that healthy for society?

I didn't go to college because I don't need a degree to make good money.

[itisnotlogical]

Murrican Tradition and what-not.

Also, Murrica is kind of bought up on the college = high paying job thing.  Yuge pressure on kids to go college or bust when they could get reliable paying work in... (what was the word?) specialties like electrician and plumbing.

I think the word you're looking for is "trade."

But yeah, colleges and high schools sell you super hard on the idea that the only way to make anything of yourself is to get a two-year associate's degree, then a four-year degree, then hopefully your PHD and all sorts of other weird options and doodads, each of which is priced at tens of thousands of dollars a year. And if you don't you'll be a dirt poor wage-slave the rest of your life. I never heard a single teacher or advisor waver from that line. Of course, electricians and plumbers were never mentioned to me; not that I've especially wanted to be either of those things, but I would have appreciated if anybody mentioned it instead of saying "University or death!"

[Trekkin]

Nobody's making them compete, though, and if we're relying on sports to get students out of underserved communities, that in and of itself is a problem we need to fix.

Financial coercion is still coercion, but I think we agree.  Sports (and the military) is basically our answer to under-served communities, and it's not a good answer.  It's intentional and works just great for those in power, though.

Oh, I'm not arguing that they aren't effectively coerced, only that it's coercion by default instead of being actively pushed toward sports specifically, the key difference being that an alternative path out would work just as well and take some of the pressure off. There's just no other industry with the networks in place to make that happen at scale even if the demand were there.

[wierd]

I went to college because I wanted to learn more things.  I think that is the correct reason to go. 

If I had a fat meal-ticket type trust fund, like those beneficiaries of the Admissions for Dollars scandals have, I would probably *STILL* be in college with multiple degrees right now, simply because I enjoy learning things, and I loved the shit out of college (even though I avoided Fraternities like they were diseased leprous whores.)  I wouldn't blow it on overly expensive "My school is FAMOUS!" posturing though.  I would settle for a well accredited local university and get the most educational bang for my buck possible instead.

[Trekkin]

I went to college because I wanted to learn more things.  I think that is the correct reason to go. 

Do you want philosophy majors? Because that's how you get philosophy majors.

Seriously, though, wanting to learn things is necessary, but I'd argue it's also necessary that the things you want to learn be of tangible benefit to you. The debt and lost wages certainly will be.

I went through college/grad school because I need a PhD to do what I love. I'd call that the most sensible reason.