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[Folly]

deterrents aren't murder
...
You could have a case we're killing them indirectly, through some economic means.  But an obvious deterrent, one they could avoid by going to a gate, isn't murder.
(hidden land mines or covered pits would be)

I have to disagree on this point. We are dictating the terms here. We could easily say that people who enter illegally will be rounded up and deported. Instead, we are saying that people who attempt to enter illegally will die in an extraordinarily painful and gruesome manner. Just because they choose to take the risk, does not change the fact that we put them in that position.

I'm not just quibbling over terminology, I don't think any person in their right mind will actually attempt to scale that section of wall - because of the lethal spikes.  They'll probably find another way, of course.

I think you are drastically underestimating mankind's capacity to engage in foolhardy behavior. Particularly when they are desperate.

[SaberToothTiger]

If Trump's going for ultimate deterrent he should turn southern Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California into a giant minefield. Any failure to cross would also provide good, family-friendly fun for feveryone.

[JoshuaFH]

The problem with the wall is that it's stupid. It's stupid in a lot of ways, but the most obvious one is that it doesn't work. Deterrents rarely work unless they're exaggeratedly over-the-top; something we're reluctant to commit to.

It'd be more effective to provide bounties to citizens turning in illegal immigrants, so now everyone is a border guard no matter how far from the border they go, but that's a whole new detestable idea.

Though the best idea is to just stop hating immigrants and love that people want to live in our country and provide for them the best we can, and we could have new, loyal citizens and hard workers.

[ChairmanPoo]

OR.... you could eat them!

[Teneb]

OR.... you could eat them!

It's eat the rich not the poor.

[sluissa]

OR.... you could eat them!

It's eat the rich not the poor.

Equal Opportunity Epicures

[Frumple]

... yeah, I'unno, deterrents might actually be murder under some circumstances. I'm thinking trapping a home, ferex. Even if you announce it the shit's mostly illegal and I seem to recall people having legal culpability for harm incurred through them. Roughly similar intent. If you're going out of your way to make something deadly (e.g. fuckoff spikes on top a fence) it's kinda' on you when mission accomplished happens.

Never mind the rest of the issues like actual asylum claims, the fact many/most undocumented folks enter by standard channels, the gross stupidity and wastefulness of a fucking wall, etc., etc., etc.

[Dorsidwarf]

Spiky fences aren't particularly deadly. I suspect that this will face the same problem as unattended razor-wire fences (AKA someone throws some old carpets over the top and totally neutralises it), even assuming that anyone will even bother to sharpen the points on top.


That aside has nobody pointed out how incredibly unsturdy that looks? None of these 5 storey metal poles are supporting each other in any way, so you could probbably wreck this thing by driving a pickup truck with a battering ram into it. Literally it misses one of the the key design philosophy of a fence which is that the posts support each other

[thompson]

Given that the picture looks like it was done in paint, I doubt this is a serious engineering design. Someone will probably just take an arc welder to it and remove a few posts, or dig under it, or cover the spikes. No one will be killed by the spikes on top. It seems rather bizarre.

If you really wanted to hurt people going over it you would use razor wire.

[wobbly]

Spiky fences aren't particularly deadly. I suspect that this will face the same problem as unattended razor-wire fences (AKA someone throws some old carpets over the top and totally neutralises it), even assuming that anyone will even bother to sharpen the points on top.


That aside has nobody pointed out how incredibly unsturdy that looks? None of these 5 storey metal poles are supporting each other in any way, so you could probbably wreck this thing by driving a pickup truck with a battering ram into it. Literally it misses one of the the key design philosophy of a fence which is that the posts support each other

Nothing in the photo shows how far sunk into the ground the spikes are. Ever noticed how unsturdy a sky scraper looks? Just you know sitting on the ground where someone could knock it over, perhaps with a plane or something.

Having climbed spiky fences before it makes little difference, a blunt pole is still going to impale you under the full force of gravity. It's a touch more awkard for your footing as you can't stand on the thing but otherwise not much different.

[Starver]

What I'd thought was that they could have built a raised monorail. No barrier to it, just regular concrete pylons supporting it above the terrain (smoothing out its gradient, ensuring no flood-barrier action) with two or more tracks for bidirectiontand train units above of up to three types (nominally indistinguishable). Patrol carriages (equipped to deliver/retrieve border patrols via waystations and/or hoists), carriages to supply mass-transportation across the southern parts of the southern states (at least, but for now start with spur-tracks to near-border locations deemed worthy of the service as well as serving all significant border settlements) and similar carriages to support northern Mexican territory, likewise.

By border cooperation, Mexico would probably gladly pay towards a system that is useful to Mexico itself. The (bilateral) border-patrol will ensure the physical non-mixing of transport between the two so that they only board/alight in the same territory (except by arranged licence, maybe later even a fourth class of train with Eurostar-like boarding checks. The trackbed would support sensors to monitor covert crossings, or any climbing onto the track (no need, except for if you want to get on the track, which is generally a prohibited thing in railways/railroads anyway and indicates more than merely illegal crossing,  except perhaps where the border-track provides an impromptu bridge across an actual river, which can be specifically guarded against) and as a monument of engineering it would be more impressive a feat than just dumb and (barely) single-purpose concrete/steel barrier.

Over time, the utility of the track may extend far from the border (both ways), making for a national (and, where allowed, transnational) infrastructure system. As far as its role in cross-border migration is concerned, combined with a reasonable reception protocol (unlike the current shitshow, where they're discouraging most forms of 'honest' attempts at migration and thus creating a bigger market for your surrepticious border crossings, with desperate families and more malicious migrants are so easily mixed together) there's easy and sympathetic movement of asylum-seekers away from pinch-points and thus less overloading of the system.

For fairness and security's sake, the rolling-stock would be identical (barring the patrol versions, perhaps with a few gimmicks to them, like.low, medium and high-security accomodation for suitably-assessed 'guests' of the border patrol) and cycled across between the two (later, more?) nationstates upon each major service, allowing any deliberately concealed packages of drugs or guns or other illicit contraband to be uncovered, and ensuring no unavoidable apartheid of repairedness.


Not that it'd happen, but just imagine

[wierd]

I find the addition of a nice climbing rose makes the spiky fence much less climbable, and also (if well tended) increases the aesthetic appeal.  Preferentially, you want a super horrid spiny old world one. (I am thinking something as horrible as a goethe rose but in the climbing variety instead of the bush variety.)

Good luck with the home owners association though. They get bitchy about such things.

[JoshuaFH]

You know, if we're gonna go megastructure on it, it'd be simpler to build a tunnel, starting at the border and going underneath the entire United States, where it then comes back up at the Canadian border, so they can illegally infiltrate Canada instead.

Or we go the way of "The House of the Scorpion" and transform the entire border into a Demilitarized Zone-esque drug lord paradise with legalized slavery. Any hopeful immigrants have to first contend with the inhumane despots that rule this land, avoid being captured and turned into slaves, and then if they make it to America, hey, fair is fair.

Or we go to war with Mexico, win the war, annex all the land up to the panama canal, and then that's all the border we have to worry about. Much simpler.

Just throwing out ideas. Stupid ideas, but still.

[wierd]

The actual, really real solution to this problem, is to stop promoting conditions and governments that disadvantage the rest of the world. (Shock, horror!)

When you stop trying to enforce american hegemony, (via sending guns, installing puppet dictators, assassinating presidents, etc.) the rest of the world stops having a hate boner for you, the rest of the world develops and the citizens of other countries remain happy and healthy in their own native digs.

Fancy that.

[smjjames]

I find the addition of a nice climbing rose makes the spiky fence much less climbable, and also (if well tended) increases the aesthetic appeal.  Preferentially, you want a super horrid spiny old world one. (I am thinking something as horrible as a goethe rose but in the climbing variety instead of the bush variety.)

Good luck with the home owners association though. They get bitchy about such things.

For some reason, the image name calls it a spineless rose when it looks like something that would look perfectly normal in the Mojave desert.