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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4461455 times)

wierd

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #26430 on: December 09, 2018, 08:36:12 am »

That is the ideal number yes.

Instead, the numbers are roughly 1/20, FOR BOTH males AND females.
(the actual numbers are 5% for women, and 4.8% for men.)


The urge to get sex without permission is pretty equally distributed between the genders already.  The impetus should be to make all instances of that behavior stop. Not to attain special protection for one, and not the other.
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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #26431 on: December 09, 2018, 09:37:57 am »

This article covers the whole issue really well.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sexual-victimization-by-women-is-more-common-than-previously-known/

One notable bit from the end of the article:

Quote
A recent study of youth found, strikingly, that females comprise 48 percent of those who self-reported committing rape or attempted rape at age 18-19.

EnigmaticHat

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #26432 on: December 09, 2018, 12:04:45 pm »

That is the ideal number yes.

Instead, the numbers are roughly 1/20, FOR BOTH males AND females.
(the actual numbers are 5% for women, and 4.8% for men.)


The urge to get sex without permission is pretty equally distributed between the genders already.  The impetus should be to make all instances of that behavior stop. Not to attain special protection for one, and not the other.
I'm not sure that page supports your assertions...
Quote
In 2011, the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) found that "nearly 20% of all women" in the United States suffered attempted rape or rape sometime in their life. More than a third of the victims were raped before the age of 18.

According to a 2013 report by the CDC, 28% of victimized heterosexual women and a full 48% of bisexual women experienced their first rape between the ages of 11 and 17

Quote
A CDC study found that, in the US, 1 in 71 men had been raped or suffered an attempt within their lifetime. The same study found that approximately 1 in 21 or 4.8% men in a survey had been made to penetrate someone else, usually an intimate partner or acquaintance. A NVAW Survey found that 0.1 percent of men surveyed had been raped in the previous 12 months, compared to 0.3 percent of women.

Also most of the stats on that page (rightly, I suppose) focus on the victims, not the perpetrators.  There's not enough info to tell who the perpetrators are.  It also doesn't talk about rape in the military which seems like a glaring omission.  Although the impression I have is that the Pentagon has a culture of burying problems, so perhaps those stats just aren't out there yet...
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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #26433 on: December 09, 2018, 01:30:42 pm »

Those are apples and oranges, however. Here are the details on that:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 05:21:08 am by Reelya »
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sluissa

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #26434 on: December 10, 2018, 09:24:57 am »

"Honey, where's my smocking gun? I got a lot of people that need smocks."
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Kagus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #26435 on: December 10, 2018, 09:29:04 am »

"Honey, where's my smocking gun? I got a lot of people that need smocks."
Now now, you shouldn't do that... It's not polite.

S'mocking.

scriver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #26436 on: December 10, 2018, 10:15:26 am »

Smocking gun?

Spoiler: This is a smocking gun (click to show/hide)
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Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #26437 on: December 10, 2018, 10:21:04 am »

It's all just a smockscreen for the real message.
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Iduno

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #26438 on: December 10, 2018, 11:43:58 am »

This article covers the whole issue really well.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sexual-victimization-by-women-is-more-common-than-previously-known/

One notable bit from the end of the article:

Quote
A recent study of youth found, strikingly, that females comprise 48 percent of those who self-reported committing rape or attempted rape at age 18-19.

Half of the people who self-reported. Which could be half of the people who did it, or half of the people who did it and have self-awareness. It doesn't really seem like the sort of thing a person capable of empathy would do if they considered their actions, so that number is fairly meaningless.
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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #26439 on: December 10, 2018, 11:46:09 am »

I dunno, people tend to offhand dismiss this data only when it suits them to do so, asking us to take other survey data at face value when it suits them as well.

Given the CDC data I linked about, which show that in a single year (2010) the same number of women claim to be victims of rape, as the number of men who claim to be victims of "reverse rape" so-to-speak (being forced to penetrate someone else due to being pinned down, threatened with violence or being drunk/drugged and unable to consent), then it shouldn't be any great mystery that similar numbers of women as men are also the aggressors. In fact, if the numbers on the female aggressor side weren't similar to the male side, it would be pretty hard to explain the CDC's victim numbers, unless you assume there are a very small minority of female serial mega-rapists accounting for all the male victims, which is kinda unlikely.

Here's another unrelated study on the same topic:
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/04da/797e90eed97fabcfc24d769e0397eddd0c9d.pdf

Quote
Perpetrator self-reports are also revealing. A 2012 study using data from the U. S. Census Bureau's nationally representative National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions (NESARC, 2001-02) found in a sample of 43,000 adults little difference in the sex of self-reported sexual perpetrators. Of those who affirmed that they had “ever force[d] someone to have sex ... against their will,” 43.6% were female and 56.4% were male (Hoertel, Le Strat, Schuster, & Limosin, 2012).

Sure, there are more men than women, however, women being almost 45% of self-identified rapists isn't a small thing. If that's not enough, the following blog post links to research results (including author, year and relevant findings) for dozens of studies supporting the same idea:

https://freethoughtblogs.com/hetpat/2013/09/04/the-startling-facts-on-female-sexual-aggression/

A few examples:

Quote
Anderson 1998 – Survey of 461 women (general population) 43% secured sexual acts by verbal coercion; 36.5% by getting a man intoxicated; threat of force – 27.8%, use of force – 20%;  By threatening a man with a weapon – 8.9%.

Anderson, 1999 – 43% of college women admitted to using verbal or physical pressure to obtain sex

Anderson and Aymami (1993) 28.5% of women reported the use of verbal coercion, 14.7% had coerced a man into sexual activity by getting him intoxicated and 7.1% had threatened or used physical force.

Fiebert & Tucci (1998) – 70% of male college students reported experiencing some type of harassment, pressuring, or coercion by a female

Hannon, Kunetz, Van Laar, & Williams (1996) – 10% of surveyed male college students reported experiencing a completed sexual assault perpetrated by a female intimate partner

If you gender-flipped these numbers, then of course, everyone would accept them without blinking.

The fact is: much of this data comes from the same surveys used to present the "orthodox" traditional model where men are active/aggressors and women are passive/victims. However, the researchers involved just blatantly lie by omission: say that a survey shows that 80% of females are sexually harassed and 75% of males are sexually harassed, probably due to very broad definitions since they want to beef the numbers up. Then, the "executive summary" will mention that 80% of women are harassed but won't mention male victims at all. You're just left to assume that the number isn't that high. That's just data fraud, and it's overtly rampant in this particular sub-field. An example from Australia is the executive summary of some research that claimed 23% of children had seen their fathers hit their mothers. What the executive summary failed to note however, was that the same survey found that 22% of children had seen their mothers hit the fathers. i.e. they took an entirely non-gendered finding and turned it into "gender-war agitprop" by cherry picking the data to suggest there was some gender difference. This is the level of academic rigor in the domestic violence / rape-survey subfield.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 12:38:16 pm by Reelya »
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misko27

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #26440 on: December 10, 2018, 03:17:53 pm »

So Trump's Chief of Staff, John Kelly, will be out by the end of the year. Trump's main candidate for the position, Nick Ayers (an Aide to Pence), has now said no. So it's uncertain what's next for Trump's cabinet.
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Gentlefish

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #26441 on: December 10, 2018, 04:33:05 pm »

This is the most high-stakes game of musical chairs I have ever seen played out.

smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #26442 on: December 10, 2018, 05:14:22 pm »

I thought I'd read that it was Mark Meadows who had said "With all due respect, no way, I like it where I am"? Not neccesarily verbatim, but probably the gist of his reasoning.

Other contenders are Mick Mulvaney, Steve Mnuchin, and Robert Lighthizer. Chris Christie is apparently a strong contender, and I've heard acting AG Whitaker be mentioned a bunch of times.

Given what happened with Sessions and what happens in general to anybody who works for Trump, Meadows would probably be leery about leaving a pretty safe House seat since unlike Sessions, he isn't doing it at the end of a long career in Congress.
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #26443 on: December 10, 2018, 05:34:39 pm »

So Trump's Chief of Staff, John Kelly, will be out by the end of the year. Trump's main candidate for the position, Nick Ayers (an Aide to Pence), has now said no. So it's uncertain what's next for Trump's cabinet.


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SalmonGod

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #26444 on: December 10, 2018, 06:03:25 pm »

So Trump's Chief of Staff, John Kelly, will be out by the end of the year. Trump's main candidate for the position, Nick Ayers (an Aide to Pence), has now said no. So it's uncertain what's next for Trump's cabinet.


In the bottom right... is that Maria Butina giving Bernie Sanders a blowjob while Rick Santorum watches?
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