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[Max™]

Regardless of how many people we have now (much, much more than is normal for an animal of our size) we will need to reach an equilibrium state eventually. That or periods of growth followed by massive die offs, but I'd prefer the equilibrium.

Or, space. I've been thinking, with all the talk of Mars and all, that if we can figure out how to build large orbital habitats fit for long-term human habitation, population size stops even being a thing and you can just build more habitats. There's always more space in space, and no localised disaster can wipe out a species spread over thousands of giant space stations.

And if we could achieve that, then why even bother colonising other planets at that point?

Three generations.

"Why do we have to keep doing these maintenance tasks?"
1st: 'Because we die.'
2nd: 'Because my dad said we'll die, what a jerk.'
3rd: 'Because my crazy old kook of a granddad said we'll die, who cares?'

Mars is no different really, the Moon or space is just as easy, Venus is a better target, workable pressures, generations of kids named Lando, you get it.

[Kagus]

Three generations.

Heh, this reminds me of something one of my philosophy professors talked about; "The 100-Year Rule". Basically, an accepted philosophy/theory will generally not be overthrown until around 100 years after its adoption. The reason for this, he hypothesized, is because first the original teachers will meet dissent with "No, you're wrong", then later their students will meet dissent with "No, my master said that you're wrong", and then finally the dilution of conviction gets watered-down enough that people will finally allow discussion and challenging of the established themes, at which point it may be overturned in favor of a new way of thinking.

...which, in turn, will take about 100 years to change.

[Starver]

Regardless of how many people we have now (much, much more than is normal for an animal of our size) we will need to reach an equilibrium state eventually. That or periods of growth followed by massive die offs, but I'd prefer the equilibrium.

Or, space. I've been thinking, with all the talk of Mars and all, that if we can figure out how to build large orbital habitats fit for long-term human habitation, population size stops even being a thing and you can just build more habitats. There's always more space in space.

And if we achieve that, then why even bother colonising other planets at that point?

To make population on Earth not an issue, you're still left with stabilising the (global) reproduction of the vast majority of those who don't emigrate to space in their dribs and drabs or working out how to send more than mere dribs and drabs out there*.

The whole "set up anew on Mars" idea is going to be done by low-level emigration of colonists (whether NASA-type choices sent by governments, or a modern-day Pilgrim Fathers enterprise buying their way out there for personal reasons) who then try to get beyond Jamestown/Darien problems and then breed themselves a larger colony. Prior to the later (not yet feasible) mass 'cruise ship' immigrations.


* - Whether to LEO/Lunar/Martian habitats or whatever other New Earth(s) it is discovered we can reach.

[MorleyDev]

It would be vastly more expensive to export our excess humans than it would be to just. Not make them in the first place.

Except then you have to solve the global social and economic factors that cause the global birth rates to average > 2.1, so that birth rates naturally decline, and then you have to fix all the economic consequences of stopping population growth.

And then you still have to overcome that many people in basically all cultures are culturally and socially primed for viewing having children as a reason for even existing in the first place.

Yes, we need to do all of those things anyway. I'm not arguing we don't try them, but...well, I just doubt humanity can do all of that before either the technological singularity happens and significant space colonisation becomes a thing, or nuclear fire happens and nobody is around to care anymore so problem solved.

[JoshuaFH]

I found something optimistic. Almost definitely naively optimistic, but optimistic:

https://www.reddit.com/r/chomsky/comments/9vyza9/general_strike_to_save_the_planet_jan_15_2019/

[Gentlefish]

Sweet Jesus I knew king was bad but he actually went on CNN to say that we should become an insular nation with replacement birthrate, teach "our" children "our" values and keep immigrants away from our nations, or else those immigrants will fundamentally destroy our nation.

[nenjin]

Sweet Jesus I knew king was bad but he actually went on CNN to say that we should become an insular nation with replacement birthrate, teach "our" children "our" values and keep immigrants away from our nations, or else those immigrants will fundamentally destroy our nation.

It's just a resurgence of old timey racism.

[Gentlefish]

And not just a resurgence, but a public resurgence!

I'm sad he got re-elected but I don't think he'll survive his next election cycle. At least, I hope we don't come to the point where open, albeit coded, racism and white nationalism is accepted by over half a general population, or ignored over party loyalty.

[scriver]

It begins!.....

We've got our second person officially running for President in 2020, a guy with a spanish sounding name that isn't actually latino. He may actually be part latino for all I know as I know nothing about the guy. Only time I've ever heard his name is from an article a week or two ago saying that he said 'People will know my name!'. Any West Virginians around here that can shed a bit of light on him?

Turns out he's already released his campaign song

[Maximum Spin]

I found something optimistic. Almost definitely naively optimistic, but optimistic:

https://www.reddit.com/r/chomsky/comments/9vyza9/general_strike_to_save_the_planet_jan_15_2019/

That's the most hilarious thing I've seen all week.

[Max™]

I saw Ojeda show up in an article earlier this year, maybe last year, so he's been around. Was a marine as I recall so at least he's metal.

[Loud Whispers]

I found something optimistic. Almost definitely naively optimistic, but optimistic:

https://www.reddit.com/r/chomsky/comments/9vyza9/general_strike_to_save_the_planet_jan_15_2019/

Never going to happen. There is no scenario where you can logic and reason the American right into giving a shit. You can only exterminate the ideology and prevent them from having any further power.

agitprop

[Doomblade187]

I found something optimistic. Almost definitely naively optimistic, but optimistic:

https://www.reddit.com/r/chomsky/comments/9vyza9/general_strike_to_save_the_planet_jan_15_2019/

That's the most hilarious thing I've seen all week.

I really hope he manages it.

[Trekkin]

I really hope he manages it.

Heck, I'll take part just to see all the edgelords rush to outdo each other's cynicism about it.

[RedKing]

At least, I hope we don't come to the point where open, albeit coded, racism and white nationalism is accepted by over half a general population, or ignored over party loyalty.

Hello, I see you've just arrived from 2015. I have some unfortunate news...

I found something optimistic. Almost definitely naively optimistic, but optimistic:

https://www.reddit.com/r/chomsky/comments/9vyza9/general_strike_to_save_the_planet_jan_15_2019/

Never going to happen. There is no scenario where you can logic and reason the American right into giving a shit. You can only exterminate the ideology and prevent them from having any further power.

agitprop

He's not wrong though. The core of the New American right is beyond redemption. Best case scenario, we give them shiny things with lots of tits and explosions to keep them out of the way.

These are the kind of people who would take a shit in the village well, just because it'll piss off somebody they don't like.