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[smjjames]

The difference is that "liberals" make up 22% of the population vs 40% for Conservatives. Vilifying Liberals is not vilifying "half the population" in the same sense that vilifying Conservatives is. Since the numbers are different, it's a bad strategy to just echo back the same hostility with a broad-brush.

You're going to have to back up those percentages with data, pretty sure it's closer to 30/30 with the rest of it filled in by independents.

[Reelya]

You mean ~25% ofthe population if the criteria are white and male, right? I'm not making a point, just clarifying.

It's one thing to say that individuals continuing to support Cheez Supreme are willing or oblivious bedfellows with fascists, but this is independent of whatever is going on with the Democrats. I also think MSH would object a bit to being considered a "hardcore liberal" (I would).

If you attack, for example, black males, that's an attack on all black people, not just black males. Attacks on a set of traits don't narrowly attack people with all of the traits, but are attacks on people with any of the traits. Attacks on something like cis-straight-white-male are attacks on each one of those things along as well as in combination. Also, if you got around yelling about "straight white male", then each of those straight white male people tends to have a straight white female life partner, a mother, daughters etc. You go around attacking people's family members and they take that personally, even if they don't share all the attacked traits.

[birdy51]

Well, at least we can still vote. With any luck, we'll have a Blue Congress to match the Cheese Curl stained White House.

[smjjames]

What are they supposed to do though? Trump is encouraging actual violence against his opponents, which is basically everyone who doesn’t absolutely agree with him. There’s only so much you can do when what he says and does gets people killed.

Actually denounce and stand up to him? For one... Not like he has some secret police under his thumb that hunts down opponents.

[hector13]

What are they supposed to do though? Trump is encouraging actual violence against his opponents, which is basically everyone who doesn’t absolutely agree with him. There’s only so much you can do when what he says and does gets people killed.

Actually denounce and stand up to him? For one... Not like he has some secret police under his thumb that hunts down opponents.

They tried that with Kavanaugh, everyone closed ranks on party lines except 1 of each, both of whom a cynic would say were worried more about their own asses rather than taking a principled stand for or against his case for being on the Supreme Court.

(Just to clarify I was talking about Dems in the bit you quoted)

In saying that, that probably wasn’t the best example since both sides were being really stupid with what they were doing.

[Reelya]

The difference is that "liberals" make up 22% of the population vs 40% for Conservatives. Vilifying Liberals is not vilifying "half the population" in the same sense that vilifying Conservatives is. Since the numbers are different, it's a bad strategy to just echo back the same hostility with a broad-brush.

You're going to have to back up those percentages with data, pretty sure it's closer to 30/30 with the rest of it filled in by independents.

Gallup research polls conducted for the last 30 years or so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_ideologies_in_the_United_States

The size of ideological groups varies slightly depending on the poll. Gallup/USA Today polling in June 2010 revealed that 42% of those surveyed identify as conservative, 35% as moderate, and 20% as liberal. In another polling in June 2010, 40% of American voters identify themselves as conservatives, 36% as moderates and 22% as liberals, with a strong majority of both liberals and conservatives describing themselves as closer to the center than to the extremes.[4] As of 2013, self-identified conservatives stand at 38%, moderates at 34%, and liberals at 23%.

These numbers are easily checked at fairly consistent. Gallup 2013:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/166787/liberal-self-identification-edges-new-high-2013.aspx



It's been this way for decades so being selectively skeptical of it seems ... like confirmation bias. Think about it: I presented accurate figures (from the June 2010 survey) and you refuse to even look into it, instead presenting your own completely made-up figures as being equally valid.

[smjjames]

Just felt like it was closer to 50/50, though it is true that the American political spectrum is redshifted a bit from the European one.

[Reelya]

It's inched to around 1 liberal to 1.5 conservatives. however ... self-identified liberals are still only 44% of Democratic voters. Also, self-identified conservatives make up about 1/6 of the Democrat voting base, but liberals only make up 1/14 of the Republican voting base. The Democrats have much more to lose out of a liberals-vs-conservative mudslinging match than the Republicans do. Don't let yourself get baited into that game.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/201152/conservative-liberal-gap-continues-narrow-tuesday.aspx

[Culise]

Just felt like it was closer to 50/50, though it is true that the American political spectrum is redshifted a bit from the European one.

That may well be because you're thinking of party affiliation.  While "liberal" has become a remarkable perjorative, actual party identification and inclination is much more equivalent.  In particular, note the charts in which independent party-leanings are included in party figures, which is particularly useful since many self-styled independents still tend to vote along party lines. 

EDIT:
That said, yes, as Reelya notes, it's important to remember that there is still a strong moderate trend within the Democratic party.  The Blue Dogs are the most visible incarnation of this, but a war on "conservatism" is going to alienate a large part of the Democratic base, which can and will jump ship if driven overboard.

[Trekkin]

The difference is that "liberals" make up 22% of the population vs 40% for Conservatives. Vilifying Liberals is not vilifying "half the population" in the same sense that vilifying Conservatives is. Since the numbers are different, it's a bad strategy to just echo back the same hostility with a broad-brush.

You're going to have to back up those percentages with data, pretty sure it's closer to 30/30 with the rest of it filled in by independents.

Maybe you were thinking of "socially liberal" vs "socially conservative"? Those numbers were 30/34 as of July 2017.

[Max™]

A bit? We've got basically paleoconservatives in power opposed by a party which could have done a decent impression of the "new right" which replaced the "old right" the paleofuckers descended from.

Both are so scared of offending the gods of the free market that what passes for the left here is willing to tie itself into knots to avoid being accused of even hinting that socialism isn't literally the devil. Apparently the best they can come up with as a sales pitch is to note that they aren't all willing to endorse neonazis, pedos, vanilla racists, and dictator-worshippers.

[smjjames]

The difference is that "liberals" make up 22% of the population vs 40% for Conservatives. Vilifying Liberals is not vilifying "half the population" in the same sense that vilifying Conservatives is. Since the numbers are different, it's a bad strategy to just echo back the same hostility with a broad-brush.

You're going to have to back up those percentages with data, pretty sure it's closer to 30/30 with the rest of it filled in by independents.

Maybe you were thinking of "socially liberal" vs "socially conservative"? Those numbers were 30/34 as of July 2017.

It's possible...

[Karnewarrior]

And yet, the opposing side to those "leftists" still believe they support child molestation. Literally.

There's a serious, serious problem with American politics which largely boils down to the fact that people in America can't accept that people who disagree with them politically aren't fundamentally evil, like fucking Sauron. The Left thinks the Right is trying to genocide non-whites and gays, the Right thinks the Left is trying to murder children and supports literal kiddy diddling, and the more the two scream at each other the more right each side becomes because people shy away from the screaming lunatics on the other side, right into the arms of the screaming lunatics on their side.

[Loud Whispers]

And yet, the opposing side to those "leftists" still believe they support child molestation. Literally.

There's a serious, serious problem with American politics which largely boils down to the fact that people in America can't accept that people who disagree with them politically aren't fundamentally evil, like fucking Sauron. The Left thinks the Right is trying to genocide non-whites and gays, the Right thinks the Left is trying to murder children and supports literal kiddy diddling, and the more the two scream at each other the more right each side becomes because people shy away from the screaming lunatics on the other side, right into the arms of the screaming lunatics on their side.

It's like some game theory prisoner's dilemma, where both sides profit if their lunatics calm down and cooperate with one another, the lunatics both profit if they don't cooperate and remain belligerent, while if one lunatic cooperated while the other remained belligerent that side's lunatics would lose

[SalmonGod]

It's also worth mentioning that Trump and his supporters didn't just appear out of the blue.  Conservative culture has been building up to this for decades.  So yeah, there might be plenty of moderate republicans who don't see themselves as genocide supporters.  But continued support for the party that has been veering in that direction for so long doesn't really match up.  It's willful ignorance at best.  In many cases, it's more resentment at having an appropriate label assigned to their political allegiance.  Because sometimes a mirror is the most offensive thing in the world. 

Having negative opinions about a group and coincidentally being indirectly supportive of things that harm that group is not made any better just because someone wouldn't be willing to harm that group with their very own hands or comfortable with seeing it done in front of them.