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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4468474 times)

Kagus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24480 on: October 22, 2018, 12:49:50 pm »

I call mine Schrödinger. It's both soft and hard, but directly observing it changes the outcome.

Is that you, Louis C.K?

Dammit, did he steal that joke before I even used it? The cur!

"wwwwwwwwwwwwwwww"

This was actually just him trying to run away from you, but the chat window was still open.

Dunamisdeos

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24481 on: October 22, 2018, 01:01:12 pm »

Kagus: ruining the magic sincccccccccaaaawwwwdda
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misko27

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24482 on: October 22, 2018, 01:30:02 pm »

Exactly
I actually do laugh at this shit really hard

Comedy is controversy multiple by time, or something.
Except it's
current
"Follow God's Path or Feel Tesla's Wrath" is pretty funny.

I'm all for mocking Mike Pence, but how did we get from there to science reference dick jokes? Come on guys....

To be fair, it's not like there's much going on politically right now. We're in that difficult bit before an election where early voting exacerbates uncertainty about the potential effect of any new developments -- and with turnout uncertain, it's risky to try to fit anything into a larger narrative right now.
The two biggest things going on now politically are McConnell going around, stumping for entitlement reform (and thus, helping red state Democrats like Manchin who'd rather discuss McConnell taking away your healthcare than Kavanaugh) and Khashoggi, whose death has attracted bipartisan outrage; including one amusing comment by Republican Senator Sasse that "You don't take a bone saw to an accidental fistfight."
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smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24483 on: October 22, 2018, 01:51:50 pm »

Speaking of the Khashoggi murder, the Turks have released evidence showing a 'body double' walking around after Khashoggi was killed.

They're also supposed to be releasing something or Erdogan is making a statement tomorrow.
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24484 on: October 22, 2018, 01:57:18 pm »

Funny thing happened yesterday (was at work so I didn't post then).  So I'm on reddit and I see a few posts on r/ all that are arguing for why trans men/women aren't real men/women, usually with some kind of pretext.  For example one was linking an article about whether or not its fair for a trans woman to compete in sports with other women.  I'm like hey, that's weird, I've never seen anything like this make it to r/ all.

Then I check out the days' news and oh look what the president is doing.  Funny how that works.  None of the posts on reddit were overtly linked to Trump or Trump supporters in any way.
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24485 on: October 22, 2018, 02:07:20 pm »

Is he complaining about trans people doing things he doesn't think they should be doing? Discussing internment camps? Actually eating trans people?

Don't leave us in suspense now.
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Trekkin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24486 on: October 22, 2018, 02:09:37 pm »

The two biggest things going on now politically are McConnell going around, stumping for entitlement reform (and thus, helping red state Democrats like Manchin who'd rather discuss McConnell taking away your healthcare than Kavanaugh) and Khashoggi, whose death has attracted bipartisan outrage; including one amusing comment by Republican Senator Sasse that "You don't take a bone saw to an accidental fistfight."

Sure, but neither of those really matter except in the context of the midterms. If Democrats don't take the House, Khashoggi gets added to another list of things for them to be powerlessly upset about and Trump's base to celebrate as a source of liberal tears until Trump resets the news cycle again. Maybe a few Proud Boys will start carrying bone saws, but beyond that it's not going to affect anything as long as a Trumpist Congress is theoretically responsible for instigating our response to it. Republicans have been going on about how the only fiscally responsible option for the country is to exacerbate income inequality as much as possible for decades, and they'll keep championing that for as long as they're worth lobbying; the tipping point where they can't sell it anymore is of interest, but it'll never be isolated, so that's back to the election again. We knew when Trump was elected that he'd declare LGBT people nonexistent unpersons as soon as was politically convenient (read: after tax stuff, immigration and the Court), because that's half of why evangelical Republicans elected him and the courts are almost fully packed.

So yes, events could theoretically be said to happen, but as long as we live in a post-truth nightmare bereft of causality or accountability, any attempt to see how they matter depends so totally upon the timing of our return to regular order that it's almost not worth speculating on as it becomes increasingly difficult to gauge the impact of any one thing on the electorate.
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Max™

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24487 on: October 22, 2018, 02:28:28 pm »

Exactly
I actually do laugh at this shit really hard

Comedy is controversy multiple by time, or something.
Except it's
current
"Follow God's Path or Feel Tesla's Wrath" is pretty funny.

I'm all for mocking Mike Pence, but how did we get from there to science reference dick jokes? Come on guys....

To be fair, it's not like there's much going on politically right now. We're in that difficult bit before an election where early voting exacerbates uncertainty about the potential effect of any new developments -- and with turnout uncertain, it's risky to try to fit anything into a larger narrative right now.
The two biggest things going on now politically are McConnell going around, stumping for entitlement reform (and thus, helping red state Democrats like Manchin who'd rather discuss McConnell taking away your healthcare than Kavanaugh) and Khashoggi, whose death has attracted bipartisan outrage; including one amusing comment by Republican Senator Sasse that "You don't take a bone saw to an accidental fistfight."
I mean, last time I had 15 grown men challenge me with bone saws I insulted the design and told them to back off or they'll get my rip saws before flexing out of my shirt and getting slightly murdered and cut into pieces....
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Telgin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24488 on: October 22, 2018, 02:38:07 pm »

Is he complaining about trans people doing things he doesn't think they should be doing? Discussing internment camps? Actually eating trans people?

Don't leave us in suspense now.

Based on what I gather, he's trying to change DOJ guidelines to deny any protections for trans people.  DOJ guidelines would say that gender = biological sex and that all other law and guidelines should follow accordingly.

I don't actually fully understand the implications of it, but this is why people are saying that Trump is trying to define trans people as not existing.
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Teneb

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24489 on: October 22, 2018, 02:52:29 pm »

Is he complaining about trans people doing things he doesn't think they should be doing? Discussing internment camps? Actually eating trans people?

Don't leave us in suspense now.

Based on what I gather, he's trying to change DOJ guidelines to deny any protections for trans people.  DOJ guidelines would say that gender = biological sex and that all other law and guidelines should follow accordingly.

I don't actually fully understand the implications of it, but this is why people are saying that Trump is trying to define trans people as not existing.
If that is indeed the case then it does imply that this guideline would say that trans people are, in the least offensive (though still very offensive, and you can believe most folks would go way further than this) way of saying it, wrong about themselves. Which, y'know, is bullshit. Especially since various societies across the world had (and some still have) gender systems with more than two genders, or had genders that were not based on biological sex.
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24490 on: October 22, 2018, 02:56:31 pm »

So, what, I guess this could lead to repealing of anti-discrimination laws? The article I googled from the NYT says it's for medical purposes by the Department of Health and Human Services, but I feel like there's no practical purpose here unless they are leading into something else. Maybe one of those "can't have a sex change on my tax dollars" things?

Actually, there aren't any specific protections for trans folks, are there? I guess aside from the general ones that protect everyone.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 02:58:11 pm by Dunamisdeos »
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smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24491 on: October 22, 2018, 03:04:57 pm »

Actually, there aren't any specific protections for trans folks, are there? I guess aside from the general ones that protect everyone.

Not Federal, no, but some states do have protections. Which, unsurprisingly, are mostly the liberal states on the coasts.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 03:07:38 pm by smjjames »
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McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24492 on: October 22, 2018, 03:15:09 pm »

Do we really need so many specific protections? Why aren't our general protections good enough?  I mean that seriously - what would we need to change about the "general" protections to make them more protective?
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Telgin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24493 on: October 22, 2018, 03:21:07 pm »

General protections probably should be good enough, except that they're up to interpretation here and people have a bad habit of interpreting them to suit their personal views.  So codifying them in law or at least department guidelines removes some of the potential to make colorful interpretations.

I'm not sure how you'd word a law that says "You can't discriminate against anyone for any reason at all" where it would work in practice.  So you kind of have to start from a basis of good faith that people are reasonable and then patch over the holes they inevitably find in that.
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SalmonGod

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24494 on: October 22, 2018, 03:37:58 pm »

I don't know the details, but I know that being a protected class alters how law enforcement and courts handle your cases.  I know this has been extremely important for other minorities, and trans people absolutely qualify in terms of their cultural persecution for those same benefits.

For one, if trans people were a protected class, I'm sure the "panic defense" wouldn't fly.  But they aren't through most of the country.  So it often does.  Which is horrifying and disgusting.

The goal here is for legal barriers to literally murdering trans people to be as weak as possible, and that is not hyperbole.


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